Outfitting a New Ultra Light Kevlar Canoe

[Will Derness]

Thanks for the dragon skin Mike. My thoughts are to use the canoe a while and let a wear pattern reveal itself before I start taking material off.

I hadn't thought of the knee bumpers being used as thigh braces, but in a sitting position that would be a great assist to becoming "one with the boat".

I prefer to kneel when things get tough. This dialogue has me thinking of how one could install mini cell thigh support in my WW canoe for when you are kneeling and want to hip the canoe. My knees don't care for the pedestal seat and thigh strap approach; I like to sit and only kneel when necessary. Having a sculpted minicell support pillar on the sides of the canoe could be of great use when my knees are splayed apart and deep into the chines on each side.

Not surprisingly, there is a reason you've got some large knee bumpers, but I do like the leaner look you helped me install. Thanks!

 

[Guest]

Not surprisingly, there is a reason you've got some large knee bumpers, but I do like the leaner look you helped me install. Thanks!

You’ve got some height on you, and the Wilderness isn’t tandem canoe wide, so when we fitted you on the shop floor for knee bumpers, locked in with the foot brace and back band, the comfort spread only had to come out a an inch or so past the inwale edge.

I prefer to kneel when things get tough. This dialogue has me thinking of how one could install mini cell thigh support in my WW canoe for when you are kneeling and want to hip the canoe. My knees don't care for the pedestal seat and thigh strap approach; I like to sit and only kneel when necessary. Having a sculpted minicell support pillar on the sides of the canoe could be of great use when my knees are splayed apart and deep into the chines on each side.

That’s intriguing. If the minicel thigh supports were not in the way of, hmmm, getting your feet under the seat when kneeling it might work. Probably not with the Wilderness.

Watching you get your feet under the seat, with the extra thwart in the way (and before raising the seat height) was like watching a lame giraffe get seated at a Japanese Steakhouse. Getting you back out dang near required a block and tackle.

 

[wgiles]

For small, but real carabiners, look at the Camp Nano 22 or the Metolius FS Mini. These are wiregate carabiners, but there are some fairly compact keylock carabiners available. I got a couple of Climb X keylock carabiners on eBay pretty cheaply, but they were probably clearance. The keylock carabiners don't have the hook that the gate fits into, so they don't snag on ropes or webbing.

 

[Alan Gage]

Don't know if these would fit the bill or not:

http://www.dutchwaregear.com/dutch-ridgeline-biners.html

I ordered a couple for attaching my tarp to the ridgeline HOOP style and they should show up in a couple days.

Alan

They showed up today. They look small in the online pictures and even smaller in real life. They easily clip over 1/8" dyneema but un-clipping is not so easy. The gate is so small there's barely enough room for your finger, let alone enough room for the rope to slide out at the same time. It's not impossible but not something I'd like if I was connecting/disconnecting often or if I needed to do it in a hurry.

Alan

 

[yellowcanoe]

I'm just curious.. I wonder why you are installing semi whitewater outfitting..lacing and float bags in a flatwater canoe? There has to be a reason, I just dont know.
And how is kneeling against a flat seat? Ever considered canting it? That is also an aid to sit and switch as you cant get pushed uphill as readily as on flat when using a foot bar. Looks like it would be a PITA to raise the back edge though.

I've never put that much outfitting into a flatwater boat so it would be interesting. Is your use mostly day trips? Mine has mostly been with packs.. and yes I have upset. I don't use float bags as packs contain air.. The jury is always out whether to lash or not but I don't and am glad where I have that I have been able to pick up floating pieces singly to get out.. Or those days of seven portages..
Where are you planning to take your new canoe?

 

[Will Derness]

While this canoe will see mostly flat water use, it has enough rocker that I think it could be used on tamer whitewater. I'm thinking Class II or less. So my intention is try it on Class II water that I know the lines well and can hopefully make it down without bouncing off rocks. Adding flotation bags will aid in recovery should I have misjudged my skill at manuevering the canoe through a gauntlet of rocks.

In my WW canoe when I kneel in the serious rapids the seat is not in contact with my body. If I'm in a prolonged section of WW with some brief calm sections separating the serious stuff, I stay kneeled and lean my butt against the front seat edge in the calmer sections - that takes some pressure off my knees.

I've been unexpectedly out of my boat enough times to know if your gear isn't tied in it will wind up lost at the bottom of the river or washed away downstream. Hence the tie off loops.

If I'm tripping, there may not be room for the airbags, but the lacing is still quite helpful. Since the lacing covers most of the cargo hold area, the line is a convenient place to secure gear to with a carabiner or clip a dry bag closure around.

Most of my experience, and preference, is river day and overnight tripping and keeping your gear attached to the boat is the best way to ensure that at the end of the day you finish with the gear you started with. Having the bow and stern cargo sections laced with line does present the risk that my upside down canoe could get hung up on a tree branch, rock, etc. by that line, but that's a risk I'm willing to take. At least all my gear is still in one place.

The loops, back band, d-rings, lacing, shock cord, and painters we installed added about 2 lbs to the boat.

 

[Guest]

While they looked effective, his early attempts at this struck me as overly massive and, for my tastes, unsightly.

You callin' my Penobscot unsightly?

Fugly but functional Penobscot knee bumpers/thigh braces



Now that they are dirty white they look even worse.

Sea Wimp knee bumpers/thigh braces. There’s a lot more carve and curve than is apparent in the photo.

 

[yellowcanoe]

Well I kneel over half the time and a canted seat is so much more comfortable for supporting your butt. When I sit I too prefer a footbrace/bar. My one wrap of a UL kevlar canoe in Temagami had the packs ejected. Thank God.. for that. Otherwise the weight of the packs in the canoe would have broken it in half 50 miles from the town of Temagami.. As it was it just had multiple folds. I reinforced with duct tape and nothing leaked...another thankful moment.

Your experience may vary but my UL kevlar boat turned out to be fumctional but just barely. The foam core was cracked and a mess. Since then I have become aware that for me only a UL boat and moving anything does not mix. Since that unhappy time in 1991 I have avoided foam entirely.

Yep my packs do float. I have to remember that the camp chair does not and needs to be binered to a pack. I did have all the gear tied in on the Buffalo and it was a haul unclipping stuff to throw it way up a six foot bank into bamboo. It was a slippery bank too!

Hopefully your experiences will be far more positive with your outfitting. I sound like naggy nancy.


BTW the Brits all seem to do what you are doing whether on the sea or on a canal. How much weight do all the extras add.. ?ballpark.

 

[Alan Gage]

The loops, back band, d-rings, lacing, shock cord, and painters we installed added about 2 lbs to the boat.

That's pretty good. Less than I expected.

Alan