New Solo Canoe from Clipper Canoes

[Iskweo]

We do have a Clipper dealer here in the Peg and I imagine this will be a hot item. Pretty good chance of a paddle I would think.

Robin, if you ever get the itch, we could absolutely pick one up and meet you somewhere in ON.

Perhaps I will drop a dime on our local guys and see if they are bringing any in. Me, I have my eye on a certain 15 foot Jack's Special...lol. Maybe that would be an idea for you Robin...a cedar strip. I am thinking 15 feet is bare minimum for you, being a bigger guy and all.

Christy

 

[Peach Canoe]

No Title

Here is a photo of the Caribou S prototype, named the Peach.

 

[Jim Dodd]

So why can't someone on the east coast build a $1500 46lb kevlar canoe? If I was looking, and I might be looking somewhere down the road, I would pay $1500 for that hull without trim and I'd set it up with my own cherry gunnels with a seat and thwart where I want it. Nice canoe and pleasantly affordable.

Just 3000 miles away.

Were I a commercial manufacturer, I wouldn't want some sloppy DIYers out there trashing something, that had my name on it.

I know most of us here are capable, but the Trashers are out there ! And they would be all over a cheap hull.

Just my thoughts.

Jim

 

[Canoeyak]

The Clipper dealer in Winnipeg is great to deal with. Ray the owner, knows his stuff and is more then fair with his prices. There have been coupons floating around the area (which he has given out) where he offers $500.00 off Kevlar or duraflex and $250.00 off fiberglass on new orders. If anyone is interested, talk to him as I did and see where it goes from there. He also recently had an add on kijiji offering free shipping to Winnipeg. Ray sells a lot of canoes so even if you have to pay the shipping, its very reasonable as long as its coming with others.

I'm guessing the prices on Clippers website is suggested list and obviously the dealers get it for less. The old saying on lots of car commercials that state "a Dealer may sell for less" was certainly true when I bought mine last winter.

My 14' prospector in Kevlar/Duraflex with most of the options, including the 3 piece Northwater spray skirt, plus some changes and extra accessories, cost me (including the shipping and taxes) around what the other local dealers wanted for just a similar Kevlar solo canoe (not including delivery, taxes and options). Clipper was more then accommodating with any changes and additions I wanted and for a very reasonable price. I am more then happy with the quality and workmanship of my canoe and I feel it is equal or better then any other brands I've seen that are available around this area. Some of the others brands available in the area would have cost me close to twice as much when you add the same options, accessories, changes, taxes and delivery.

With our terrible dollar, US made canoes are pretty much out of the question for Canadians unless you have lots of money to throw away. On the flip side, with the current rate of the US dollar, someone south of the border could probably buy a Clipper for a little more then what the materials would cost to build one.

Robin, if you get the itch, you may want to take Iskweo up on her offer, as it appears it could cost even less then you thought.

Perry

 

[Robin]

Were I a commercial manufacturer, I wouldn't want some sloppy DIYers out there trashing something, that had my name on it.

I know most of us here are capable, but the Trashers are out there ! And they would be all over a cheap hull.

Just my thoughts.

Jim

I believe that there are very few folks who would lay out $1000-1300 for a bare hull then try and finish it themselves, just my opinion. Plus, nobody's going to sell a bare hull, just won't happen. I have a few excellent bare Roylex hulls right now, but I would never sell them as is. Trim pays
But, at over $900 cheaper than a 4 lb lighter hull, http://www.paddling.net/buyersguide/soloCanoes.html
I would consider buying this canoe at $1500 and stripping the hull, install cherry gunnels, and a cherry framed seat, set back enough so I could have a center thwart (cherry)for portages. The canoe would only be used for tripping, so my packs would be up front to counter balance the set back seat.
To me that would be the perfect canoe.
Affordable kevlar canoe, reasonable weight, set up for my style of tripping.

 

[Canotrouge]

I believe that there are very few folks who would lay out $1000-1300 for a bare hull then try and finish it themselves, just my opinion. Plus, nobody's going to sell a bare hull, just won't happen. I have a few excellent bare Roylex hulls right now, but I would never sell them as is. Trim pays
But, at over $900 cheaper than a 4 lb lighter hull, http://www.paddling.net/buyersguide/soloCanoes.html
I would consider buying this canoe at $1500 and stripping the hull, install cherry gunnels, and a cherry framed seat, set back enough so I could have a center thwart (cherry)for portages. The canoe would only be used for tripping, so my packs would be up front to counter balance the set back seat.
To me that would be the perfect canoe.
Affordable kevlar canoe, reasonable weight, set up for my style of tripping.

Or you can call Marlyn and see what it would cost you to by the boat already fitted with wood gunnels, they use mostly ash, but I'm sure he can quote you for a cherry outfitted boat!!

 

[Guest]

I would consider buying this canoe at $1500 and stripping the hull, install cherry gunnels, and a cherry framed seat, set back enough so I could have a center thwart (cherry)for portages. The canoe would only be used for tripping, so my packs would be up front to counter balance the set back seat.
To me that would be the perfect canoe.
Affordable kevlar canoe, reasonable weight, set up for my style of tripping.

Robin, given your successes in finding used canoes and refurbishing them I have faith that you will eventually turn up a kev solo or small tandem that needs new brightwork or other repairs for far less than $1500, and set it up with cherry in the outfitting style you prefer.

What was the composite Bell you picked up, a Morningstar? If so that was a decent solo canoe to my mind; 15’ 6” (15’ 3” at waterline), 30 ½” wide at 3” waterline (32” at 4” waterline), under 50lbs. The Morningstar waterline specs are all very close if a bit wider at the gunwales.

It would be interesting to see some canoe manufacturer’s cost breakdown; facilities cost, utilities, insurance, materials, labor, transport, advertising, etc.

 

[Alan Gage]

I'm confused about the Clipper pricing, what's included, and how their boats are sold. Gunwales aren't listed as standard features (but thwarts are?). Multiple gunwale materials are listed in the "options". Does this mean the website prices do not include gunwales? If that's the case do they actually sell the canoes without gunwales (on request) or does that just mean the price will go up accordingly depending on what trim options you choose?

Alan

 

[Canoeyak]

Alan, as far as I know, gunwales are included on all clipper canoes. Aluminum trim is standard on most with black anodized optional, gunnel covers optional and wood trim optional. I doubt that any "main stream" canoe manufacture would sell an "unfinished" canoe. Lots will make changes but I can't see it being good for business to sell partly finished canoes. Once it's paid for, the customer is welcome to do what ever they want with it. I'm not aware of any manufactures that would even sell a incomplete canoe. This is true with most products nowadays because of liability issues, etc.

Perry

 

[Alan Gage]

Alan, as far as I know, gunwales are included on all clipper canoes. Aluminum trim is standard on most with black anodized optional, gunnel covers optional and wood trim optional.

I agree that it seems silly for a manufacturer to sell an unfinished canoe. Glad to know gunwales are included in the website price. I thought perhaps the given price was for the basic shell and then you chose what trim options you wanted installed, which would likely bring the price in-line with many other manufacturers. Just thought it was strange that I didn't see a description of the "standard" trim package, though I could have missed it.

Alan

 

[Canotrouge]

The price include gunnels, seats(usually tractor seats) thwarts and for the tandem, a portage yoke and on some models foot brace. I would think that the caribou s would have countered web seat, no yoke and no foot brace considering the type of canoe!!

 

[Peach Canoe]

The foot brace is an option on the Caribou S, but in the prototype I delivered to Clipper, I had installed a foot brace. Not every paddler likes a foot brace, but I use them in both solos and 2-seaters. We have a beautiful Bell Wildfire in our stable and it came with a high-mounted seat with about a 1 inch of forward slope (on a 10-inch deep seat)-- perfectly set up for kneeling and moving about and tripping on a large 'freestyle-type' pad. I installed adjustable kayak-style foot rests.

Note: many solo canoes come with the seat too low to allow the feet to go under the seat safely. You can simply raise the seat to enable easy movement of the feet from beneath the seat. Usually soft river booties or the like are used to preclude entrapment; boots with stiff soles can get trapped.

Seats are easily adjusted for height, and foot braces (either kayak-style or the bar type) are fairly straightforward to install.

In my solos I use webbed seats installed fairly high-- about 9 1/2" in front and 10 1/2" in back, to allow easy movement of the feet between under the seat and on the foot rest. I use a large (1/2" x 32" x 52") removable foam kneeling pad that's temporarily fixed in the bottom of the boat. This yields nice comfy seating positions: (a) a sturdy 3-point brace with both knees in the chines and butt on the seat for serious maneuvering; (b) one foot on the brace and one knee firmly in the chine for comfortable cruising; and (c) you can have both feet on the brace and knees locked under the gunwales in sit-and-switch (this is where those thigh pads glued to the gunwales are used)-- because I don't sit-and-switch, I don't use those pads.

I've introduced and outfitted this system many times, and people really like it. I could upload some photos if you're unfamiliar with the system. Cliff Jacobson, Mark and Becky Molina, and many other canoeing experts use a similar system for solo tripping. The pads cover all areas where your feet will go, both forward and aft of the seat. Paddling on ice-cold water, the hull gets very cold. But with the pad, your feet in just wool socks stay toasty-warm.

With the pad and foot brace I typically paddle with one foot on the brace and one foot under the seat. I move around a lot in the boat for comfort-- to stretch out muscles, rest muscles, and look around. I can literally paddle for hours like this, but as I mentioned, sit-and-switch hurts my lower back.

 

[Guest]

Note: many solo canoes come with the seat too low to allow the feet to go under the seat safely. You can simply raise the seat to enable easy movement of the feet from beneath the seat.

Seats are easily adjusted for height.

I have wondered if that low factory seat position on some canoes isn’t partly by design. Pretty much any hack with a ruler and a saw can trim a seat drop to a desired depth, but making them longer is a trickier proposition.

 

[Peach Canoe]

Yes that's true-- when moving a seat up or down and/or fore and aft, the seat usually won't fit in the new position. If it's too long that's okay, but sadly, it's usually too short. Therefore, a seat with un-trimmed rails will need to be purchased.

I ordered a canoe from Wenonah-- with "seat not trimmed and not installed", and that made it easy. The other, a Clipper Prospector 17 came with the seats installed, and I moved the front seat back 4" and the rear seat forward 10". The front seat fit the new position, but I had to purchase a new un-trimmed seat for the rear.

 

[Guest]

Therefore, a seat with un-trimmed rails will need to be purchased. I ordered a couple of canoes-- one from Wenonah, and one from Clipper with "seats not trimmed and not installed". That made it easy to place the seats where I wanted them.

I had not thought of that option and wish I had done so with my Wenonah Wilderness. I have some peculiar preferences for seat height and especially fore/aft placement.

Do such a request also come with the thwarts not trimmed or installed? Wenonah’s factory stern thwart location would not leave much room to move the seat back.

 

[Peach Canoe]

I doubt whether a manufacturer would ship a canoe without thwarts installed, as they are likely considered 'structural'-- but it's worth asking if you think you might move them. I have moved thwarts too, but you run into the same problem-- sometimes you need a longer thwart and you'll either have to make one or buy one un-trimmed.

 

[sweeper]

So why can't someone on the east coast build a $1500 46lb kevlar canoe? If I was looking, and I might be looking somewhere down the road, I would pay $1500 for that hull without trim and I'd set it up with my own cherry gunnels with a seat and thwart where I want it. Nice canoe and pleasantly affordable.

Just 3000 miles away.

Ranger up in Ashland, NH makes a $2000 16' kevlar canoe at 52lbs but I see them on Clist for less. I had one for a while before I got into tripping and liked it a lot.

http://rangercanoe.com/index.htm

 

[Guest]

I doubt whether a manufacturer would ship a canoe without thwarts installed, as they are likely considered 'structural'-- but it's worth asking if you think you might move them. I have moved thwarts too, but you run into the same problem-- sometimes you need a longer thwart and you'll either have to make one or buy one un-trimmed.

Shipping a canoe sans thwarts might well result in damage. The issue isn’t in making new thwarts, or buying them from Ed’s or Essex, but in not wanting to have a bunch of old seat and thwart holes in the gunwales of new canoe after I move the seat and thwarts to my preferred locations.

Perhaps the ideal solution is what Canoe Tripping poster Willie did. He spent several months investigating and test paddling new solo canoes before deciding on a Wenonah Wilderness. He then spent more time demo paddling the Wilderness, including one owned by an outfitter friend with revised seat and thwart placements.

Using that knowledge he calculated the best seat and thwarts (plural) placement for his size, gear load and paddling style and had Wenonah build him a Wilderness with his specific non-factory standard outfitting. The upcharge was very reasonable and he got a new boat set up the way he wanted from the factory, without having to disassemble and reinstall everything.

Wenonah does it. I expect Clipper would, as well as the more boutique makers. I kinda doubt the corporate giants like Old Town or Mad River would be interested.

 

[charlie wilson]

Lloyd's Peach/Caribou S is an important new solo, replacing the NLS RockStar as the best big guy's solo. It's pricing is explained by the laminate. The Kevlar laminate includes a full blanket of less expensive polyester fabric. The skin coated Lightweight includes a layer of S glass, again, heavier than Kevlar and less expensive. Both laminates are heavier and less expensive than current "top shelf" industry standard and the price reflects that. When Clipper starts using Carbon, Innegra and Kevlar with infusion technology their weights will drop and and prices will soar, suggesting free lunches are very rare.