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​Motor canoe with kayak ama video teaser

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Short video of the first test run of the Suzuki 2.5 hp outboard with detachable kayak ama.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPErEihIaes&feature=em-share_video_user


Everything works. The aka’s (crossbars) are easy to install and adjust for width and the 2.5 HP outboard moved the rig along at 7mph at half throttle.

We have some tweaks yet to incorporate, including a bow spray shield and belly cover for the motor canoe and the installation of a permanent motor thwart across the gunwales behind the stern seat.
 
That is all presupposing you have need of the kayak during your travels? If not, you could build up from a block of foam and fibreglass over to create the necessary floatation ama or build from 1/4 marine ply as per things found on YouTube. (Similar to the old Spring Creek outriggers) And create some weighted storage as well. But those were all paddle power and not doing 7 knots either.

We built up similar smallish ama/float from marine ply (3'L) for an old friend who had severe balance problems...Course we never knew if he used them past where you could see from the boat launch..:rolleyes: You see outriggers now and then on some serious fishing kayaks.
 
That's just too cool, Mike. Looks like fun. Impressive speed. Did everything feel strong and stable at speed?

Very nice work.

Alan
 
dang it, Mike! Now I can't stop thinking about coming up with a woodstrip freighter canoe and small outboard. Robin should delete this thread before it causes any more trouble.

Alan
 
That is all presupposing you have need of the kayak during your travels?

The initial intention is to build a rig that can be motored out a considerable distance with a gear load, including potable water (and hammock stands), to distant remote sites in the Everglades, and then be able to release the kayak ama for day paddling explorations. From the test motor trip it appears that the rig will easily do 5 to 7 mph. Four hours of putt-putt at 6mph = 24 miles and the etc, etc do the math.

That opens up a lot of country. All around the country. There are some distant canyons on Lake Powell that might be best visited by motoring 30 miles away from the boat traffic at Bullfrog.

Once this stage has been proven (and that seems promising) the further evolutions will probably involve some kind of fold out live-aboard platform. Or a trimaran, with two people in the motor canoe and two detachable kayak (or canoe) amas, one on either side.

I’m expecting to see some new-to-me stuff as a passenger in this rig.



That's just too cool, Mike. Looks like fun. Impressive speed. Did everything feel strong and stable at speed?

We had an investigatory process in mind from the start. A big part of that was to do a test trip before we finalized anything, largely to ascertain the best location for the motor and motor mount, far enough back that the handle could be turned without hitting the driver, far enough back that the motor could be flipped up horizontal with the prop out of the water without interfering with a paddle stroke, and yet close enough that the driver had a comfortable arm position without having the hold the throttle at an awkward arm-behind-the-back angle.

We knew there would be a “sweet spot”, and we wanted to find it before making the final motor mount attachments.

The rig is incredible stable. Even unbalanced me could stand up in the boat, and it might behoove Joel to bring a stand up paddle blade. The aka are not in the way of either bow or stern paddle stroke.

The test paddle revealed a couple of things, most of them expected:

I outweigh Joel by a good seven stone. We brought along a couple of 5 gallon buckets to add trim weight but didn’t initially fill them. There was some chop and a few whitecaps when we started into the wind and we were bow heavy. That didn’t seem to impact the speed or aka rigidity, but at anything over 5 MPH there was some minor splash on my legs from the bow wake in waves.

The bow spray shield, which we did not bring, would have eliminated that issue.

The distance between the motor canoe and kayak ama was perfect, with the bow wake / \ from the canoe passing behind the stern of the kayak ama. That may vary with a heavily loaded canoe, but the aka can be adjusted further away.

We stopped at a sandy beach and did a couple other tests. Joel motoring around with no trim weight up front was stupidly bow light, with 3 feet bow out of the water, although the rig still worked.



We added the two 5 gallon buckets full of water up front and with Joel solo the motor canoe was still a little bow light but much better.



When we shifted the water buckets further astern with me in the front the bow was far less splashy even at speed.

We never needed to go above half throttle, which was a GPS’ed 7mph and that little 4-stroke Suzuki barely sipped gas at half throttle; we had emptied half the tank or less when we returned. I’ll be curious to see how far it goes on a full tank of gas.

It was also pleasingly quiet. When Joel abandoned me on the beach to motor off solo I couldn’t hear him coming until he was nearly ashore.



The non-revelation was that the motor mount would be greatly enhanced by adding a motor thwart in the appropriate location behind the seat.

Easy peazy, and it is epoxied together and curing right now.
 
Nice to see running it bow light didn't seem to cause any problems. I'd tend to think that would be the way to run it. Otherwise I'd worry about it wanting to broach in following waves.

Really neat setup and it has my mind wandering into the avenues I'd never really thought about before.

Alan
 
The rest of the shop story

One highlight of my shop life is having Joel stop by twice a year, en route north to guide in Maine, and en route south to guide in Florida. Boat maintanence, trailer upgrades, weird outfitting ideas and shop builds.

It is often stuff outside of my norm, and always a learning experience. The motor canoe with releasable kayak ama may be the most educational and evolutionary project yet. To quote Joel’s least favorite chain restaurant “I’m lovin’ it”.

First up, before we could even think of test paddle the motor rig, the canoe needed to be registered as for motor use. This necessitated the Manufacturer’s Certificate of Origin, a photograph of the HIN plate number, a completed registration form, a scenic drive trip to a rural DNR Service Center and $30-some dollars for a 2-year registration.

And some 3” tall registration numbers. You’re up Joel. That 6 looks crooked.



That simple number application wore Joel out, and it was either play guitar or read the Suzuki motor manual. Fearing he might move on to the banjo I suggested the latter.



We played with some of the accessories. The Freedom is a Mad River IQ boat, and the IQ accessories finally come in handy. IQ lashings on the bow to hold in a float bag, and an IQ waterproof (drysuit-type zipper) bag to hold flares, flare gun, running lights, tool kit, motor manual and other motor-required gear.



That waterproof zippered IQ dry bag finally found its ideal use.



And whadda ya know, the gas cans fit perfectly snug under the front thwart.



We custom made some minicel saddles for the decks of the Caribou and Nomad. The ^ peaked fore decks of both boats wanted a more angular saddle to fit over the bulkheads.



And the flatter rear decks needed some additional height. We may cut that one down some and add a wider minicel footprint for enhance stability and spread. Or leave it and make a couple of other varying height minicel saddles with wider feet. There will be a 20+ foot tandem kayak ama attached at times, and a selection of custom saddles might be helpful.



The motor manual recommends a complex break in; idle in neutral for 20 minutes, idle at half throttle in neutral for 20 minutes, etc, etc. We wanted all of that idle in neutral done before we put the boat in the water for a test trip. A saw horse and a trash can full of water to the shop rescue.





Motor break in complete we played with some more IQ accessories. Oh heck yes; the bow spray cover needs only a couple of snap rivets to fit dry and snug, and the belly cover is perfectly sized to fit between the akas. It’s like some buff designer made those IQ accessories to fit with this rig.



That is quite a stylish hat Joel, but 3 days later and you never did finish lacing the bow float bag in place.





Joel is easily distracted. In this case by adapting a pair of Thule J-cradles to the trailer crossbars.





And adding a cage and lightweight cargo container to the trailer tongue, to hold PFDs and empty water containers and other bulkylight gear in transport.



That trailer tongue attachment remains yet another unfinished project Jobert, needing some holes drilled and filled, and run to my country hardware purveyor for a couple more square U-bolts. I’ll start making you a list of projects to finish. Or start.

There evolved another half day of screwing around with the trailer, which had been put together all kinds of bassakwards wrong by the original owners. If we spend another half-day with the cargo boxes and we’ll have it put together right, and fully customized.

The lowest trailer crossbar provides a perfect place to hang the motor for service, for a quick freshwater bucket flush after tidal use or emptying excess gas. I love it when a plan comes together.



Those stupid plastic sleeves on the trailer crossbars need to disappear, at least along one set of bars for ease of motor mount clamping for service and flushing. Maybe on all the crossbars; what a stupid manufacturing idea that was, adding slip-prone plastic sleeves over the metal crossbars.

At least one set of those ill conceived sleeves should go bye-bye for motor mount ease. The motor mount clamps don’t open far enough to fit over those sleeves.

I’ll add that to your to-do list: Band saw new 2 x 36 strips of exercise flooring for trailer crossbars and contact cement in place.

dang, you got some work to do.
 
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dang it, Mike! Now I can't stop thinking about coming up with a woodstrip freighter canoe and small outboard. Robin should delete this thread before it causes any more trouble.

Alan

Yeah Alan ! You could motor to Humboldt and back, on the West Branch ! ! !

That is SWEET Mike ! Can't believe how fast it looked in the video!
I wonder how much fuel the Suzie at full throttle uses ?

I'm impressed !

Jim
 
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dang it, Mike! Now I can't stop thinking about coming up with a woodstrip freighter canoe and small outboard.

If you build such a beast I’ll be interested in your ideas, especially some design to incorporate a motor mount area in the stern. One of the issues there is making sure that the prop is positioned just below the bottom of the hull, so with a high stemmed boat that short shaft Suzuki would need to be mounted lower than the gunwales.

That is SWEET Mike ! Can't believe how fast it looked in the video!
I wonder how much fuel the Suzie at full throttle uses ? /QUOTE]

GPS’ed at 7 mph at half throttle. I kind of doubt that rig will ever see full throttle; it isn’t a planing hull and pushing the speed might result in an inefficient bow wake. I will be curious about the fuel economy at half throttle over the course of the first long trip.

We are thinking that with the two 10L gas cans and a couple of 1L bottles that little Suzuki should drive the rig a long ways.
 
Gosh, that motor hummms! The real test will be handling a fully laden boat, but I may be getting ahead of myself. Will the yak be used for additional storage on delivery runs? Seems a waste of space to run the outrigger yak empty when it can be put to added use. Can a handy dandy temporary flat base be put in to cover the yak seat to better accommodate the added cargo? (Or the seat easily removed?)
I know I'm getting way ahead of myself and your project but, I can hardly wait for the first real cargo delivery trip report from the Everglades. This project is turning out to be just too much darned fun to be called work. Come on in, the water's fine from over here on the dark side!!

ps Still lots to do. You've hidden Joel's car keys, right?
 
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Gosh, that motor hummms!

The little Suzuki 2.5 hp 4-stroke seems ideal. It gets great reviews for performance and dependability and I was amazed at how quiet it was. I’ve had small 2-strokes and the noise difference was substantial.

There are a number of manufactured items in the motor canoe kayak ama build, and we are pleased so far with all of them.

The aka crossbars are Spring Creek lashing bars, which they have been building since 1988. Chuck at Springcreek added the attached ratchets for kayak strappage, and Joel bought a second set of gunwale clamps for attaching a canoe ama.

The motor mount is likewise from Spring Creek, a “Super Strong”, which is speced in the catalog for 4hp, 35 lbs max. The catalog specs the 3/8” thick aluminum bar as 30” long x 2” wide, but the one Chuck provided is 2 ½” wide. It seems plenty beefy for the Suzuki, and will be even more so when we install the motor thwart.

The real test will be handling a fully laden boat, but I may be getting ahead of myself. Will the yak be used for additional storage on delivery runs? Seems a waste of space to run the outrigger yak empty when it can be put to added use.

I am unsure about loading the kayak ama, at least with anything heavy. There is a lot of dry storage under those hatches though, which could certainly be used for light stuff. The kayak in the test trip was a 17’ 3” Caribou, and the other kayak we test fitted was an 18’ 10” Nomad. At some point the ama may well be a 20+ foot double.

I know I'm getting way ahead of myself and your project but, I can hardly wait for the first real cargo delivery trip report from the Everglades. This project is turning out to be just too much darned fun to be called work. Come on in, the water's fine from over here on the dark side!!

ps Still lots to do. You've hidden Joel's car keys, right?

Joel needs to promise to send some video from Everglades trips. I am eager to hear how it does with a load, hear what MPG the motor averages over trips.

I’d hide his keys, but we never manage to get everything done, and I know he has a spare set or two. The sooner he gets this rig out loaded for bear the sooner we’ll know what kind of tweaks and improvements we need to tackle next shop session.

I can still proclaim my personal darkside avoidance. We only own one long unused kayak, and I’ll give it to some inlaw this winter. I steadfastly refused to run the motor on that test trip, despite that reversal offering better trim and Joel the opportunity for a bow perspective. The less I have to do with small engines the happier I am.

The design and build was a joy, and I am happy to be a passenger seated 10 feet away from any responsibility.
 
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Hey Alan, just design the boat to have a "well" in the back behind you to hang the motor dead center in the boat.
 
The Motor Thwart

The test paddle quickly revealed what we already suspected. The canted angles of the gunwales behind the seat do not provide a flat-flush surface for the motor mount. The outwale slope means that only a small portion of the mount is resting on the gunwale.



That won’t do.

The simplest solution is the best solution. McCrea’s Lazy Variant of Occam’s Razor.

The simplest solution being a motor thwart installed behind the stern seat in the predetermined “sweet spot”. A big thwart, 3 ½ inchs wide, double hung with two machine screws and wide flange washers on each side to better spread the motor stresses. Kinda like a wide double-hung yoke on a freighter canoe.

Not just the simplest solution. The best solution, especially on a motor designated freighter that won’t be portaged.

Having a thwart at the motor mount position just makes all kinds of sense. Alan will probably build a custom carbon fiber one incorporated into the hull with some trickery I cannot even imagine.



That’s all good and solid, but I want the motor thwart surface to be slightly above the top of the gunwales, so that the aluminum bar motor mount can be clamped tight and flush, and isn’t resting movement-prone metal to metal atop the gunwale edge, or worse atop the flange washers.

Time to laminate a seriously sturdy custom motor thwart.



Built to size and height from 4 pieces of epoxy laminated wood the thwart rises barely above the gunwales, just enough for the aluminum motor mount bar to clear the wide flange washers. I had concerns about that uber thwart squeeking if it were flush against the gunwales, so I left the wood layers between the inwales a touch shy.

Back out it comes to quarter round the exposed edges, finish sand and get drilled for clamps and machine screws double hung through the inwales.

I wish I had time to coat the entire motor thwart with epoxy, but we don’t have a week to wait before a UV coat. I’ll get as many coats of Spar Urethane on it as I can in the next few days.
 
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I would recommend posting links to the "other" thread in each to somewhat link them together for future "Googlers" who might only come across one or the other.

Will do. There was a lot of adaptive shop work going on beyond the motor mount. A whole lotta shop work done got done over the course of a few days. Admittedly I drove Joel from one task to another like a rented mule, largely just staying one step ahead of him in laying out tools and materials and reorganizing the clutter left behind.

The motor thwart was removed and got quarter round routed, sanded, and spar urethaned, including inside the drilled holes.



Urethaned thrice, and then I ran out of time. Reinstalled, with some webbing loops off the machine screws for back band attachment and stern float bag lacing. There’s no better already-there anchor than a machine screw shank.



That motor mount design can’t get much sturdier or easier to attach. I like that it is flush atop the motor thwart, with the screw knobs and washers underneath, with the square head of the carriage bolt locked in the same-sized adjustment slot. The vertical wood motor mount pieces can be positioned flush against the outwale or slid several inches outboard.

BTW, one thing I noticed from my bow perspective while under power; the motor shaft needs to be positioned at least a couple of inches away from the edge of the hull, otherwise the no-space proximity between the shaft and hull piles up water. Positioning the motor shaft outboard a sufficient inch or two distant from the side of the hull is beneficial in preventing that occlusion.



There followed a few days of work in our usual fashion. Lots of little projects, from repairing Current Design hatch seals (G/flex and patience) to rethreading sil-nyon stuff bags with new draw strings. Much fun.

Much of that fun was adapting existing accessories to the trailer. That trailer that was put together all kinds of wrong by the original owners. Every possible kind of wrong; if a piece could have been installed backwards or wired wrong, it was.

It’s been several years and we’re still finding WTF parts of that design and assembly; there are still crossbars that are mounted on the wrong side of the uprights.

Even the top bar between the posts was installed wrong, with the sleeved open end facing the 60mph highway rain. That backwards top bar decanted fuglyrusty water smhutz on the boats after every rain. Now at least it is sealed and facing the right way. Those folks would have gotten a coin flip heads-or-tails wrong every time.

Joel had an excess Yakima roof cage and found a lightweight locking cargo box that fit with room to spare. Mounted on the tongue with some square U-bolt adaptation* that box held a good volume of lightweight stuff, and the cage accommodated the empty water and fuel containers nicely.



*Having enough square U-bolts, end pieces, nuts, carriage bolts, washers and etc to adapt our sundry trailer outfitting ideas became a daily challenge. I know Joel enjoyed the staff at my local hardware, and I think they enjoyed our near daily visits. At least Joel now knows exactly which isle to head towards for his needs.

And he has a goodly supply of hardware that was just a little too long or too short stored in the trailer boxes. Might come in handy at some point.

While we were at it we removed the horrible-design-idea OEM plastic sleeves on the trailer crossbars and added new strips of minicel exercise flooring padding, contact cemented in place. Those plastic sleeves were worse than useless, slipping in position and too wide to allow the motor to be maintenance-hung off a crossbar. They’re outa there. Not outa here; the six we removed are in the shop awaiting further adaptive re-use.



So, we had more spare roof rack parts at our beck and call; a pair of Thule J bars, and a set of Yakima cradles. And we had stupid trailer crossbars that will not accommodate any standard roof rack attachments.

No canoe or kayak trailer should ever be sold with crossbars that don’t fit standard rack attachments. Ever. There are plenty of used Yakima and Thule parts floating around to outfit any trailer.

It took a bunch of adaptive hardware, parts-accounting fails at design cogitation, and uncounted trips to the hardware store (see failed design cogitation), but we eventually installed a pair of Thule J bars on the trailer that fit the Caribou chines perfectly, and a pair of Yakima saddles custom adjusted for the Nomad. Many carriage bolts, square U-bolts, extra end plates and custom drilling later it all worked.

Many square U-bolts, and twice that many end plates. We came up a couple end-bars short, and I found one on the bench after Joel departed. I want a clean workbench dammit! This is why we can’t have nice things.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/search/square u bolt

If Joel was a little shorter he would have to limbo as much on that adaptive saddle installation.



Two kayaks up top, in the more exposed slipstream, the motor freighter canoe down low and that rig is ready to roll once the Rendezvous solo canoe (with rudder) fills that last crossbar slot. Long road trip ready.



dang Joel, I see empty space on the left side of the van’s roof rack crossbar. You need more stuff.

Including one of those Werner step ladders shortie.
 
For those who were interested in building a motor freighter. I've always wanted to build the Rob White Sport Boat. It's based off the Grumman boats of the same name but tweaked for better performance and a strip build. It might be just what you all are looking for. Motor, paddle, row, pick your pleasure. And it can plane with a 3 horse.

http://www.robbwhite.com/sportboat.html

Rob White is deceased, if I recall correctly, but if you mail a check to the address the family will send you plans.

I'm probably overstepping my bounds here but those "rowed canoes" really get me going.
 
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Thanks Muskrat ! That bears looking into !
I have strips cut, and I'm leaning towards a new build this Winter !

Jim
 
dang it, Mike! Now I can't stop thinking about coming up with a woodstrip freighter canoe and small outboard. Robin should delete this thread before it causes any more trouble.

Thanks Muskrat ! That bears looking into !
I have strips cut, and I'm leaning towards a new build this Winter !

Good grief, what have I done?

Iowa boys and motor freighters – I’ll be interested in following the builds.
 
For those who were interested in building a motor freighter. I've always wanted to build the Rob White Sport Boat. It's based off the Grumman boats of the same name but tweaked for better performance and a strip build. It might be just what you all are looking for.

One caveat I can offer – the transom height or side-motor mount height need to be matched to the shaft length of the motor.

What little I now know about canoes and outboards indicates that the prop and cavitation plate should be positioned below the bottom of the hull. One of the reasons we went with the 17 foot MRC instead of the deep 20’ freighter was that the stem height on the freighter would have necessitated building a side mount that hung below the outwale.

Even with the 16” stern depth of the MRC we needed to use the shallower aluminum bar mount from Spring Creek. The side motor mount design in Gilpatrick’s “Building Outdoor Gear” does incorporate that below-outwale design, but it is a more complex build.

A square stern transom canoe would need similar design depth consideration and motor selection. That short shaft Suzuki 4-stroke was a good pick for weight, quietness, performance and reviews, but if we ever decide to put it on the freighter canoe we’ll need to redesign the motor mount.


Motor, paddle, row, pick your pleasure. And it can plane with a 3 horse.

Add “sail”. And rudders. And decked canoes and releasable kayak amas. It’s all small boat tripping good, and I enjoy the oddball, new to me stuff

We’ll get a sail on that rig yet. And a small, live-aboard platform.
 

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