Making Carbon Fiber Sheets or Am I Turning into Alan Gage

[dougd]

I've needed new deck plates for my Courier after building several that have failed. This was trying to follow the one existing deck that came with the hull. All have failed in one way or another, don't ask. Bored at work one day I looked up making carbon fiber sheets and it didn't look to hard. I have had a roll of it around for a few years now and have used some up but thought dang I will have enough to make a few sheets for new decks. I got home from work today and started laying everything out and started thinking I hope I don't morph into Alan!

Using the original deck as a template I cut out the shape of it and then decided to use blue tape on the edges but that turned out a disaster so switched to just making square blanks that I'll cut and shape later when they cure.

What amazed me was because I was laying four layers on it ate up the roll of cloth pretty quick. If this works I'll have to order another batch of CF to make a second deck. Much like steam bending wood I have absolutely no idea of what I'm doing but figure it is worth the try. I use West System because it is available local but this time I bought a can of 205 quick hardener vs the usual 206 slow.

Basically I cut 4 pieces of the same size, smeared the first with resin then laid the second on and using a brush smoothed that into the first layer with a touch of resin, added the third and added a healthy dose of resin and worked it into the other layer and then the fourth layer I smoothed out with a light layer of resin which I smoothed out so no air bubbles appeared. Peel Ply on top of that and am letting it sit.

Now, I laid everything on a large piece of plexiglass but had no idea if resin would stick to that so going to EpoxyWorks website they state that 3 mil plastic will act as a release so I went with that as I had it on hand.

Here's a link to making DIY sheets: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uhR4jdFiS4

Link to Epoxy Works and release options: http://epoxyworks.com/index.php/what...poxy-to-stick/

I really like trying new things whether they fail or not, hoping for a NOT fail this time.

Not sure why the photos came out in sequence backwards but basically what I started with to peel ply steps. Sorry bout that.

 

[Odyssey]

Holy cow! You did this on the good dining room table! And on wall to wall carpet! You must be confident.
No worries; if all else fails just throw a table cloth over it and maybe she won't find out till Thanksgiving.

I like the CF deck idea. Incredible it takes so much material.

 

[dougd]

She cleared the table off for me! Plus I had a large sheet of plexiglass on the table. The better half thinks I'm crazy 90% of the time but still backs me up here and there. Believe me if she thought this was nuts I'd be out in the barn doing this!

 

[Odyssey]

Ssooooo you're all good 10% of the time? Those odds sound good to me.
Did the original deck plate have any 3D contours to copy, or just flat 2D? Flat would keep things nice and simple.

 

[Canotrouge]

Nice work... You "wife" is like my "wife"... I never know when she will have enough of the craziness and kick me out to the dog house!!

John Kazimierczyk of Millbrook boat does his decks like that, thin flat CF screwed to the wood gunnels!

 

[dougd]

Ssooooo you're all good 10% of the time? Those odds sound good to me.
Did the original deck plate have any 3D contours to copy, or just flat 2D? Flat would keep things nice and simple.

Flat 2D. Should be easy to replicate once I figure out how I'm going to cut it. That will most likely be with my jigsaw and a metal blade to avoid as much chipping as I can. Don't want to buy any new tools.

 

[dougd]

No Title

Results are in. Here's where things went right. It cured nice and flat. Here's what went wrong. The cloth picked up every imperfection in the 3 mil plastic even though I thought I had it as flat and wrinkle free as possible. There are small areas that seem starved of resin, using a squeege or piece of hard plastic to push the resin all the way through the layers of CF would have worked better then using a brush. The side that I used peel ply on came out dull in appearance not the nice look of CF. I missed a brush bristle that is now a locked in, crap!

Due to the cloth I had the sheet has a little bit of bend to it meaning I can hold the sides and flex it bit, not as stiff as I thought it would be. That is not necessarily a bad thing. If I had a thicker cloth I don't think this would happen, just guessing.

I'm going to trim all the loose ends on the sides and then see what a coat of resin will do for filling in any thin spots and also see if it will shine up the dull side.

On the next trial I'll probably forgo the plastic as release and use car wax directly on the plexiglass as the release agent which will avoid any crease/imperfections and I won't use peel ply.

I don't know what I'll use this for, maybe hang it on the wall as a reminder of what to do next time. It also work to see what the best cutting device is. Once I add some resin and let it cure I'll post some more pics. More to come on this experiment!

dougd

 

[Alan Gage]

I hope I don't morph into Alan!

Well if you take a shower tonight and all your hair washes down the drain that just might be the case.

I really like trying new things whether they fail or not

Yep, sounds about right.

The cloth picked up every imperfection in the 3 mil plastic even though I thought I had it as flat and wrinkle free as possible.

Oh yeah, BTDT.

The side that I used peel ply on came out dull in appearance not the nice look of CF. I'm going to trim all the loose ends on the sides and then see what a coat of resin will do for filling in any thin spots and also see if it will shine up the dull side.....On the next trial I'll probably forgo the plastic as release and use car wax directly on the plexiglass as the release agent which will avoid any crease/imperfections and I won't use peel ply.

Despite the dull finish you have peel ply was absolutely the right move. After a couple fill coats it will have that nice glossy carbon fiber look. If you didn't use peel ply the finish would still look bad (the weave texture would be showing) and it would take more fill coats to level everything out. Use a squeegee during the fill coats to force the resin into those little empty holes.

not as stiff as I thought it would be. That is not necessarily a bad thing. If I had a thicker cloth I don't think this would happen, just guessing.

Without a core to build thickness I'm often surprised how many layers of cloth it takes to get a stiff piece. For my carbon fiber seats I've found I need 2 layers of 20oz. cloth to get a stiff enough seat. That's a total of 40oz per square yard of cloth so if I was using 6oz. cloth I suppose I'd need 7 layers. And that's a curved surface which adds some strength of its own over a flat panel.

I cut my CF on the bandsaw with the same blade I use for wood (because I don't have a metal blade). It's works fine but dulls the blade in a hurry. I think you'll be fine with a jigsaw.

I think by the time you sand this a little and add fill coats it's going to look just fine.

Alan

 

[Guest]

I’ll be curious if the epoxy top coat restores the “shine” to the peel ply side. My guess is that the very faint weave pattern left behind by peel ply eliminated the gloss.

It looks like it is hard to get the carbon fiber weave laid down perfectly straight and parallel.

 

[sailsman63]

It should.

The dull finish is just surface roughness, which is expected at this stage. Once the fill coats are in, and looking nice and glossy, You'd want to finish sand with fine sandpaper. (It will dull again) Then apply a UV-resistant topcoat. (If you have never looked for one before, Minwax Helmsman Spar Urethane is cheap and Ubiquitous. It has a strong amber tint, but I doubt that that would be noticable over a black substrate.)

 

[Guest]

Dang Doug, that is a whopping roll of carbon fiber you have on hand. Or had, what size carbon fiber sheet did you made?*

Were you ordering materials with a couple beers in you again? “Yesh, sixsh shards shounds abou shright”

*Made on the kitchen table. Screw the carbon fiber experiments, get busy building the new shop.

 

[Muskrat]

Window insulation kit shrink film. Tape it to the table and hit it with a hair dryer. You'll have a perfect release and no wrinkles.

 

[dougd]

No Title

Thanks to Alan's kind advice I added two filler layers of resin using a squeegee to force resin into the small holes. It seemed to help some but couldn't hide the imperfections but I said the heck with it and kept going. After a couple days of drying I took it to the workshop and using the original deck plate traced it out onto the sheet with chalk which gave me a bit of space beyond the original plate. I used a jigsaw with a metal cutting blade and it cut through it like butter leaving only a couple of chips due to me and blade speed.

With that done I used a sanding block and dang but it went quick. It could be that even though it's four layers it's still fairly thin. I first laid the original on the boat and I guess old age and time had me scratching my head. It was a lot thinner then the ones I had made a few years back. I'm glad I cut it wider. I'll have to see how it fits.

I then laid a thin coat of spar varnish on it for UV protection and called it good. heck yes I'm gonna use it and heck yes I'm going to make some more with a modified way of doing it. I curse that plastic I used but live and learn. All's good.

A few pictures.

 

[sailsman63]

Hmmm... I can't really see issues in the "right" side of the pictures. The side that was pressed into the plastic will always have that texture, just face it down.

I'm not surprised that the sanding went fast, as carbon is not very abrasion resistant. Most carbon hulls that I have seen have a layer of glass on the surface for better abrasion resistance.