magic seat height?

[JAWS]

what seat height do you have for your bell magic,
I wish to get my feet under seat to kneel once in a while,
my stock seat drops measure 3 1/2 in rear 4 1/4 in front
I will be cutting new ones while using these as pattern
will trim till I get it right, just wondering if you gone through this and where
your at.

 

[Alan Gage]

When I first got my Magic someone had put kneeling drops in it. I'd guess it was about 1.5" in the front and .75" in the rear. Not very comfortable for sitting and still not terribly easy for me to get my size 11 feet under and out of.

Will you be kneeling or sitting most of the time?

Alan

 

[yellowcanoe]

Depends on how you place your feet. Depends on what shoes you are wearing.. Depends on the length of your feet. Depends on the range of motion of your knees and whether you can sit on your calves are.

The drop should be lower as yours is. I prefer a higher seat. This will reduce stability but the Magic is pretty stable for me. I use one inch rear . 1.75 front. for drops with size 9 feet.

Your results can vary greatly. There is no one answer.. Just keep trimming and installing and testing..

when you fall out your body and feet will twist so entrapment is less likely than you may think

 

[JAWS]

Iam sitting most of the time, boat is very stable for me, times i get in big chop and wind and sometimes bring big lab dog so occasional kneel is a must, size 11 with flex booties 6'3 long legs, 160lbs, good to know what works for you, so much thanks

 

[yellowcanoe]

I'm 5'5" so what works for me could be totally worthless for you. Its impossible to know unless someone includes it if they are booted. I don't ever wear Bean boots or hiking boots or thick soled boots canoeing.
you have to think about how you are going to switch from kneeling to sitting. I could not do it with thick soled boots at all.. The attack angle of the feet is way different than falling out.
So you see its a complicated question.

 

[Guest]

It also depends on the length of your legs from knee to hip. As people said, no fits all answer. I set my solos up so that with a slight shift for and aft, I can put weight on my knees or not. Also, so the front of the seat doesn't cut into the underside of my thighs, but I don't slide foreword when sitting. A little change makes a big difference.
Turtle

 

[Alan Gage]

Iam sitting most of the time, boat is very stable for me, times i get in big chop and wind and sometimes bring big lab dog so occasional kneel is a must, size 11 with flex booties 6'3 long legs, 160lbs, good to know what works for you, so much thanks

I'm 6'1" 170 and used to paddle mine with a 65lb dog all the time. I don't even know how a Magic paddles empty because I've never done it! Had it out in high winds and white caps plenty of times and tripped with it (and a smaller 30 pound dog) for up to 10 days at a time.

The whole time I owned it I kept meaning to install a floor mounted sliding seat that would give me adjustable trim (handy with the dog) and also allow me to kneel. I never did get around to it and sold the boat last year after 7 years of happy ownership. I always got by fine sitting.

I guess the point I'm making is that if you plan to sit most of the time and only kneel occasionally I think a high seat will be uncomfortable for the majority of your paddling. But it's easy enough to cut out a couple seat drops and test it out. Maybe you'll be fine.

For added stability and assurance in rougher conditions I think you'd be well suited with a foot brace if you don't already have one installed. It does a lot for keeping you locked in place and I also find it makes sitting in a canoe seat much more comfortable.

All the boats I build now get a narrow sliding bucket seat mounted to the floor. Comfortable for sitting, which I do 98% of the time, and passable, though not ideal, for the occasional kneel. Switching back and forth is a breeze.

Alan

 

[JAWS]

No Title

thanks Alan, dog is great company on long solo trips- no wining, I will not glue or drill alter this magic, it does not have a scratch. my legs are long and can use thwart for foot brace my most comfortable canoe is a 86 Wabash valley by Bell with a slider and foot brace, no room for dog though, trying to send pic

 

[yellowcanoe]

thanks Alan, dog is great company on long solo trips- no wining, I will not glue or drill alter this magic, it does not have a scratch. my legs are long and can use thwart for foot brace my most comfortable canoe is a 86 Wabash valley by Bell with a slider and foot brace, no room for dog though, trying to send pic

you might rethink that. Try it. Doing that rendered me so unstable in waves as to be scary. A footbrace lower is an asset. I haven't regretted that ever and I am a 50 percent kneeler and 50 percent sitter . The footbar is not in the way. The high seat is fine. But high seat and bracing feet on thwart is...bath. But you probably knew that and its the conflict with the aesthetic you want.

.

The Magic is a neat boat empty or loaded. Heeled to the rail ( sans) dog it spins pretty well. Flat it tracks.

I like those pics of the old Bell. The heyday of solos! Savage River is making racing boats like that now.. What goes out of fashion comes back..

 

[Alan Gage]

thanks Alan, dog is great company on long solo trips- no wining, I will not glue or drill alter this magic, it does not have a scratch. my legs are long and can use thwart for foot brace my most comfortable canoe is a 86 Wabash valley by Bell with a slider and foot brace, no room for dog though, trying to send pic

Neat boat. Is it the X-Cell? I just sold mine this spring.

Alan

 

[JAWS]

I think Bell called it Dynamic, there's not much info on web

 

[Will Derness]

My approach for getting seat height right, for me.

1. Measure the length of your paddling shoe.
2. At the seat front edge position, from the hull's bottom to the bottom of the seat should equal paddle shoe length.
3. The drop length is then measured from the top edge of the seat to the gunwale.

This provides for a fairly high ride, so I like the deeper hulls. However, I know if I'm kneeling and I find myself leaving the boat, foot entrapment isn't an issue. So I tend to sit high when things are benign and slide into kneels when things get me nervous.

 

[charlie wilson]

Magic's plug arrived at the Bell in Zimmerman the same winter the Merlin mold, a Bruce Kunz design, cracked. We fitted Magic with intermediate drops and it did quite well as a sit or kneel general purpose solo tripper. When Merlin II got to town a year later we refitted Magic with the current lower seat, ~ 5.5 inches off bottom.

 

[JAWS]

No Title

Charlie was that in the mid 90s, do you remember the size of the drops? Northstar offers kneeling drops but does not list the measurements. Thanks to you for your input and all you have done for the sport of canoeing
pic of Magic in question

 

[charlie wilson]

Bell's solo kneeling drop measures 5/8" at back screw, 1 3/4 at front screw.

The sitting solo and stern tandem drops are 3" at back screw, 3.5" at front screw

Magic and tandem bow drops are 3.5 at rear screw, 4.25 at front screw.

It seems there was another drop, but that's what I have.

Screw to screw spacing is 8" to fit the Ed's Canoe Parts seats.

I left Bell in 99, but doubt that things have changed much. Mid 90's, Ugh!

 

[Nodrama43]

I just ordered a set of drops from Northstar for my Bell Yellowstone in BG. They fit my existing Bell seat perfectly.

 

[JAWS]

thanks Charlie, hey I just bought a flashfire, I know nothing of free style but the boat seems to fit me just right, 6'3 160lbs, will try it on white water if I can avoid the mean TX rocks, wont hurt to learn some freestyle strokes, I know your the freestyle king, wondered who had the rights to the molds for the fire boats, maybe Bell sold them or did you have the molds?

 

[Jatfomike]

I think Colden canoe in NY may have those molds and is reproducing those models......

Mike

 

[Guest]

Yep, I have a great Colden Flashfire. It's my favorite canoe and has taken me on many great adventures.
Turtle

 

[charlie wilson]

Colden has FlashFire, 13'X28.5", DragonFly, 14'X28,5 in, WildFire, 14' X30" and StarFire, 15'X33"; all available with cherry or CobraSox rails. Paul is pretty much one stop shopping for highly rockered symmetrical boats. The other builders, Clipper, Merrimack, NorthStar, Nova Craft limit themselves to one hull; it either fits or doesn't.