Citizen Race Canoe Suggestions?

[tketcham]

JCH_Ski,​

I haven't paddled either of those Sawyer solos you're asking about but I have paddled a Wenonah Advantage in a lot of conditions that you might encounter in that race or out paddling for a day. I no longer own the Advantage - I discovered sport canoes and couldn't keep all those boats so something had to go - but it remains one of my all time favorite canoes. It does go plenty fast for a recreational canoe but it could also handle some choppy waves, moderate current (not really whitewater), narrow twisty streams with beaver dams, and maneuvering through and around downed trees and stumps in a swamp. Was it the best canoe for most of those conditions? Of course not, and why I'm now more of a sport canoe guy. But I made the Advantage work for me because that's what I had. I think you'll find the same for the Shock Wave; you get used to the boat and you make it work.




As for the layups, I think the Expedition Kevlar is just what you're looking for based on the descriptions. (I don't know if they changed their layups after the late 1980's.)



As others have mentioned, in the end you just have to narrow down your priorities for performance, buy something you can afford that is well within that performance range, and then learn how to paddle it effectively with efficiency. That's part of the fun of canoeing.

 

[stripperguy]

FWIW, I built a DY Special as a cedar stripper, using plans given to me by DY himself, including some shear line mode to make it easier to build.
Yes, it was fast.
Yes, it was beautiful.
BTW, it was 32 lbs.
DY mentioned that he designed the Shockwave (the younger brother of his DY Special) with a somewhat fuller aft section, to reduce the “squat” experienced in shallow waters.
As always, I’ll recommend building your own hull, costs are low and the rewards are high.

 

[JCH_Ski]

FWIW, I built a DY Special as a cedar stripper, using plans given to me by DY himself, including some shear line mode to make it easier to build.
Yes, it was fast.
Yes, it was beautiful.
BTW, it was 32 lbs.
DY mentioned that he designed the Shockwave (the younger brother of his DY Special) with a somewhat fuller aft section, to reduce the “squat” experienced in shallow waters.
As always, I’ll recommend building your own hull, costs are low and the rewards are high.

Wow - this sounds awesome, yet strangely intimidating. I wouldn’t know where to begin!

 

[Gamma1214]

I wouldn’t know where to begin!

If at all interested, you chould begin by reading some of the (multitudes of) build threads on here. Anyone interested in building a stripper is in good company on here as there are many builders who can (and will gladly) help you.

I'm hoping to have mine done in the next week or so and I know very little about woodworking and I knew nothing about building a canoe except what I've read on here and in Canoecraft. (a great resource but be warned: I think the pages contain the toxin that causes the stripper building addiction... then again, what else are ya gonna do in the winter?)

You don't have to spend a fortune on tools or materials and, with reasonable hand skills and some patience, I think most people could build one. Encased in epoxy and displacing water, it has to float, it will probably look better to everyone else than it does to you and subsequent boats will probably get even easier / look better.

Just remember that, in the end (should it get the better of you) the whole thing is still flammable and there would likely be a special satisfaction in that as well (but I'd be surprised if the project ended like that).

 

[JCH_Ski]

If at all interested, you chould begin by reading some of the (multitudes of) build threads on here. Anyone interested in building a stripper is in good company on here as there are many builders who can (and will gladly) help you.

I'm hoping to have mine done in the next week or so and I know very little about woodworking and I knew nothing about building a canoe except what I've read on here and in Canoecraft. (a great resource but be warned: I think the pages contain the toxin that causes the stripper building addiction... then again, what else are ya gonna do in the winter?)

You don't have to spend a fortune on tools or materials and, with reasonable hand skills and some patience, I think most people could build one. Encased in epoxy and displacing water, it has to float, it will probably look better to everyone else than it does to you and subsequent boats will probably get even easier / look better.

Just remember that, in the end (should it get the better of you) the whole thing is still flammable and there would likely be a special satisfaction in that as well (but I'd be surprised if the project ended like that).

I spent some time today to wade part way through your build thread. Impressive!

I have to say, though, that my winters are spent out on the ski trails. And I’m not sure wax fumes and epoxy fumes go well together.

 

[devils son in law]

JCH, I live close to Grayling and paddle the AuSable often. I have a Wenonah Voyager and would highly recommend one. It is designed as a tripping canoe and is very efficient loaded or empty. It's a great boat to have.

 

[goonstroke]

JCH, I live close to Grayling and paddle the AuSable often. I have a Wenonah Voyager and would highly recommend one. It is designed as a tripping canoe and is very efficient loaded or empty. It's a great boat to have.

Voyager is a great boat, but depending on the race it may not qualify as a citizen racer. In the US north at least stock C1 classes are usually under "4x32"/cruiser rules, so the ratio of waterline width to length has to be at least 0.14375. The Advantage qualifies (just), but the Voyager is too skinny.

 

[devils son in law]

The event she is interested in is "geared toward all types of recreational, touring or racing watercraft". Therefore it qualifies for this challenge. Good point though.

 

[JCH_Ski]

Well, the Summersong and Shockwave at Hemlock both sold while I was waiting for more photos and information.

 

[zehyani]

There is plenty of time to find the right canoe. in the meantime, you have a solo to practice in. I suspect joining or connecting with the Michigan Canoe Racing association will get you lots of resources, both in terms of boats and training.

I have paddled a DY special once. It was a really nice and straight tracking canoe. At the time i knew very little about canoes and passed on it, as it was heavier than I wanted.

 

[JCH_Ski]

I have a new question: Does anyone here know what year Sawyer first started making the Summersong?

We’re on our way to Minnesota to pick up a Summersong (Kevlar 49). I may be taking a chance, as I haven’t seen it in person, but the photos look lovely. The guy said it was a 1983, but I can’t find any indication that it was made before ‘85. Anyway, later today I will be able to look for the HIN, but in the meantime I’m interested in the history of that model.

I‘ve hunted all over the internet, looked at all the catalog pages on BWCA, looked at Iboat, etc. Iboat doesn’t list it until 1985, but I have no idea how accurate/inclusive that is.

Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions and input! It was all very helpful!

Jan

 

[Alan Gage]

I don't know but if the pictures and specs match a Summersong the most likely scenario is that the guy is wrong about the year.

Alan

 

[JCH_Ski]

I don't know but if the pictures and specs match a Summersong the most likely scenario is that the guy is wrong about the year.

Alan

That’s my guess, as well

 

[JCH_Ski]

It is a 1983. October manufacturing date? I know they changed the way they did this in, what,1985? So what would the M before the 83 be?

Its more scratched up and less pristine than I could see from the photos, but I’m pleased with it. Feels fairly light, I but won’t know which Kevlar layup it is until I get it home and can weigh it. It’s somewhat lighter than my kayaks.

 

[Alan Gage]

Nice! I'm going to guess it's the Super Light Kevlar. The Expedition models I've seen all have pigmented gel coat. But I'm no Sawyer pro so I might be wrong.

Enjoy the new toy!

Alan

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

It is a 1983. October manufacturing date?

Congrats, JCH. Plug SAW14092M83J into this decoder:

Free HIN number Decoder for any Boat, Hull, or Vessel - HINDecoder.com

It says it was produced in May 1983.

 

[devils son in law]

Oooooh !! Somebody got a new canoe!!

 

[zehyani]

congrats on the new canoe.
Paddle lots.
Use a gps to trace speed and efficiency.
Connect with some racers. They will help you.
enjoy

 

[TDG1515]

I'll try to sound knowledgeable for you. No guarantees on the authenticity of it though.

Once upon a time I used to race canoes and kayaks. I took it pretty seriously for a few years. I was never very good but I owned a lot of different boats and learned quite a bit from the experience.

For starters no one has yet broken the laws of physics. There is a lot of hype from manufacturers and owners about how fast this or that boat is but when it comes right down to it there is very little difference, and I mean very little difference, between similar hulls. A 16' solo canoe that's 29" wide with slight rocker is going to be almost identical in speed to any other solo canoe with similar specs. I think, over the course of a race, you would have very similar times in a Magic, Prism, Summersong, Shockwave, Advantage, or Blackwater, and plenty of other hulls. In fact it's possible you could have better times in some of the "slower" boats due to being more comfortable over the course of a long and tiring race.

Even comparing a semi-fast solo canoe like a Magic or Shockwave to something like a more dedicated racing hull will see little difference for a recreational paddler. A more skilled racer can coax a lot of extra speed out of a faster hull but most of us mortals will see very little speed difference over the course of a race at the levels of output we're able to sustain. Those higher speeds come at a price, they aren't free.

I'll give you a little example of what I mean. When I started racing kayaks I had a QCC600x that wold probably be equivalent to something like a Magic. It was a performance touring kayak. I started training and did a couple races and was convinced I was maxing out the speed of the hull. Over a 6 mile race I'd average about 5.2mph.

So I bought a West Side Thunderbolt that would have been the equivalent of a J-boat in canoes. It was 21' long and 18" wide and it looked like a rocket. As soon as I got it on the water I gave it a full out sprint and couldn't believe how much faster it was than the QCC! But then I paddled it for 6 miles and my average speed was only 5.4mph. Barely faster than the QCC!

Now there is no doubt that Thunderbolt was a much faster hull than the QCC but as someone who was a decent paddler in decent shape I wasn't able to take advantage of that speed. Over the next couple years I trained hard and I was able to push the hull up to 6.7mph over a 6 mile course and there were still more gains to be made had I stuck with it.

And remember that QCC I thought I'd maxed out at 5.2mph? I was now able to average 6mph in it.

I guess what I'm trying to say, in a long winded way, is that unless you really want to get serious about racing then don't worry so much about the boat. You'll get similar performance from anything in the category you're looking at. Skill, technique, stamina, and strength will give you more improvement than this or that hull.

For racing or fitness paddling I prefer a canoe with minimal rocker just to minimize the number of times you have to switch sides. No, they won't turn as quickly, but they still do turn and the more skilled you become the faster you can make it happen.

Paddling them up or down a river at a fast pace is a different skillset than paddling a more maneuverable canoe but it can be just as rewarding. Rather than making quick turns and adjustments you'll be looking farther up/down the river and planning your course in advance. With practice you can enter/exit eddies, go around obstructions, and take corners without breaking your rhythm or using steering strokes. I wouldn't want to be paddling CII rapids in them but from the rivers you describe I don't think that will be an issue.

I've owned a couple old Sawyers from the early 80's in Golden Glass and I wouldn't call it a very robust layup, at least not now that they're 40 years old. I thought they seemed fairly brittle. I had another from the early 90's in kevlar and that still seemed to be a strong layup. How they were stored over the years (in or out of the sun) might have made a difference.

If I was you I'd be tempted to grab the first thing that came along if the price was right. Since you don't know what you want the chances of getting the right boat the first time are slim. So just get something that will get you on the water in an efficient solo canoe. If it turns out you really like it then start looking for something better. The more time you spend on the water in a solo canoe the more you'll learn about what you do and don't like and what to look for in the next one.

Alan

This is an excellent post.

 

[jdeerfoot]

Citizens Race canoe - as suggested just get a boat and have fun.

I used to participate in a small community triathlon (canoe/bike/run) with all other participants being equipped like me (mostly alum or poly canoes, lower end road bikes, etc). It was great fun and we even took 2nd place once with my 25 yrs older dad putting us in a small age group section (+80 yr for the team). Then the competitive triathletes started to show up with Jensen racing canoes and high end tri bikes and the whole tone of the event changed. Participation declined and the event was discontinued. Too bad, it was a fun, little race in mid September with an enjoyable picnic lunch afterward.