Canoe Restoration

This is my first post, and my first venture into canoe repair/restoration. I purchased a cedar strip canoe for $200.00 knowing full well that if needed work. After initial clean up, I discovered that much of the fiberglass had delaminated and just pulled off. There was also some water trapped under the glass against the wood. The bottom of the canoe is not flat, picture attached. My question is should I replace some of the strips, or just re-glass over the existing hull? If I just re-glass over the existing hull will it affect the functionality of the canoe? Thanks!!

I don't want to be a Debbie Downer, but for the money you would spend on resin and glass, I would probably use it as a bookshelf, or kindling. It's pretty rough, the hull is hogged, which won't be easy to fix, and with the number of running splits in the hull....well, I would stay away from it.

Kind of sad to see that. I hope that the damage came from a lot of good times on the water.

Mem might be right here, but I'll play devil's advocate and say that this still might be salvage-able... Depending on some factors.

First: Do you have any info on the canoe? Where/who built, what kind of resin, etc? For example, if this is polyester resin (big-box fiberglass resin) you have first-hand evidence on why most builders now avoid polyester and prefer epoxy.

Then: Questions about the condition as is:

1. Is the interior also delaminated/delaminating. (I might expect a bit of peel-up at the major cracks, but is the glass overall well attached to the interior? If this is a polyester layup, I expect the inside glass to be coming off too. Pics of any spots of concern.
2. Is the cedar currently waterlogged, or has it dried out now that the glass is off? This helps evaluate movement.
3. Are those gunwales glued on, or fastened? (Fasteners might be visible from the interior.)

memaquay said:

the hull is hogged, which won't be easy to fix, and with the number of running splits in the hull

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I think that these two might be related - the splits opened when the hull bent in. Keep in mind that due to how wood grain works, strip hull cores don't provide much/any strength transversely in the first place. That's entirely up to the glass layup. Structurally, those cracks do not concern me except regarding the potential peel-up on the interior.

Third: What's your goal for this boat, and what is your capability for doing some potentially delicate wood and plastic work? Can you accept that even in the best-case, this canoe will always have scars?

You won't need big shop tools, and you certainly don't need to be an expert, but a willingness/facility for using hand tools, and treating the whole thing a bit like a puzzle will go a long way. Several of us here have built these from scratch, so with more information we might have some advice.

Whether it's worth the work to you is a question that only you can answer.

memaquay said:

I don't want to be a Debbie Downer, but for the money you would spend on resin and glass, I would probably use it as a bookshelf, or kindling. It's pretty rough, the hull is hogged, which won't be easy to fix, and with the number of running splits in the hull....well, I would stay away from it.

Click to expand...

That was going to be my response too. It would probably be quicker and easier to just build a new one.

Alan

sailsman63 said:

Kind of sad to see that. I hope that the damage came from a lot of good times on the water.

Mem might be right here, but I'll play devil's advocate and say that this still might be salvage-able... Depending on some factors.

First: Do you have any info on the canoe? Where/who built, what kind of resin, etc? For example, if this is polyester resin (big-box fiberglass resin) you have first-hand evidence on why most builders now avoid polyester and prefer epoxy.

Then: Questions about the condition as is:

1. Is the interior also delaminated/delaminating. (I might expect a bit of peel-up at the major cracks, but is the glass overall well attached to the interior? If this is a polyester layup, I expect the inside glass to be coming off too. Pics of any spots of concern.
2. Is the cedar currently waterlogged, or has it dried out now that the glass is off? This helps evaluate movement.
3. Are those gunwales glued on, or fastened? (Fasteners might be visible from the interior.)

I think that these two might be related - the splits opened when the hull bent in. Keep in mind that due to how wood grain works, strip hull cores don't provide much/any strength transversely in the first place. That's entirely up to the glass layup. Structurally, those cracks do not concern me except regarding the potential peel-up on the interior.

Third: What's your goal for this boat, and what is your capability for doing some potentially delicate wood and plastic work? Can you accept that even in the best-case, this canoe will always have scars?

Click to expand...

Thanks for your input. I do not know the history at all of the canoe. I am a woodworker, and have always wanted to build a boat, so I finally jumped in and purchased this one to repair.

The cedar is now totally dried out, thanks to the Arizona sun, which has caused some of the cracking. There is some peeling on the inside but I do not see the delamination that I saw on the exterior.

The gunwales are fastened with screws, I was planning on removing them today.

My goal is honestly to learn from the boat. I want to repair as much as I can as best as I can and then sell it.

I'm also guessing that if the glass peeled off easy, it was polyester resin that was used, which is a good thing for your purposes. Epoxy bonds with the wood, giving a superior strength to the polyester, but is a bugger to remove.

The reason I mention this is that if it is polyester, and there is some peeling on the inside, then the poly has probably delaminated mostly on the interior as well.

If your goal is to repair as best you can & learn for a (potential) future build, I'd peel off all interior and exterior glass, put some tape on the cracks (on the inside), fill them with thickened epoxy (from the outside), fixture something inside the hull to push out the hogged areas, sand it down, re-glass it and hope that it retains the new shape (at least somewhat).

I wouldn't expect that you'll make money on it but you'll get some glassing & sanding experience, some practice installing gunwales, etc. and, hopefully, be more in your comfort zone for the build.

Really nothing to lose but some time and some money... Keep us informed on your progress & welcome to the site.

Gamma1214 said:

I'd peel off all interior and exterior glass,

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I'd be concerned that if the interior glass comes off that easily, the strips are going to mostly fall apart. Typical strip-layup glues aren't water resistant at all, and OP says that the hull was waterlogged.

I do agree that re-fairing the hull form is a necessity if this one is salvage-able. Just glassing the hogged shape will leave a canoe that doesn't carry what it should, doesn't handle at all, and looks extremely unlovely.

...the strips are going to mostly fall apart.

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Good point. If interior and exterior glass are removed without forms to hold the hull shape, we'd basically be hoping that the glue would be sufficient to maintain hull integrity (unlikely). Do you suppose the OP could fixture something to correct the hogging & re-glass the exterior and it would hold the new shape?

That might also eliminate taping the cracks... they could be filled with thickened epoxy "as is" and the interior glass would (hopefully) minimize the over penetration to the interior (?)

Interesting project for sure... We've seen some pretty extreme salvage jobs on wood/canvas canoes but this is the most ambitious stripper repair that I can remember.

Gamma1214 said:

Do you suppose the OP could fixture something to correct the hogging & re-glass the exterior and it would hold the new shape?

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That would probably be my approach. This does hinge on whether or not the interior glass is still functional. If the interior glass is bad, then @Alan Gage is correct, and a new build would be easier, as in my experience the interior glass job is the hardest part for a new builder.

Gamma1214 said:

eliminate taping the cracks... they could be filled with thickened epoxy "as is"

Click to expand...

Well, I'm thinking that as the hull is re-formed, these will mostly close on their own. Perhaps also need to boost the moisture content up a little to get the bottom to flex. I was thinking that light peel-up at the cracks would be corrected in that case by flowing a really thin resin, such as System 3 Clearcoat into those cracks - there shouldn't really be any space to fill.

I'm still not convinced this is a good idea. The OP said his intention is to learn by doing and to then sell the canoe. If the main intention is to learn and he doesn't mind losing money in the process then go for it.

If the intention is to actually make money by selling it then your best bet would probably be to burn the canoe tonight. This canoe is worth $0 as it sits right now. I think you'd be hard pressed to get much over $500 for it when it's completed. And that's assuming you're going to be able to get the hull back into shape and fix it up so that it looks, and functions, as new. I've seen brand new, and very attractive, cedar strip canoes, sell for around $500. I'd guess $750 would be the max you could get for this hull after completion, but I could be wrong.

Without seeing the rest of the canoe, and feeling it in person, it's hard to say how much work and time could be involved. But looking at that hogged and warped hull it looks like you'll have to create some forms to push the hull back into shape. Certainly even then there will be some scraping, sanding, and reshaping necessary. Once that is done how much thickness will be left?

Completely replacing the strips on the bottom of the hull could be done, but why? You'll need a strongback, forms, cedar strips, time, and patience. Might as well build a new one at that point. Time and materials will be pretty equal.

If someone really wanted to learn canoe repair then I think it would be best to start with a canoe with a solid hull that just has rotted gunwales or maybe something with a crack in an otherwise solid hull that can be patched. If cedar strip canoes have a special attraction then build one. You'll learn a lot more about how they're constructed (and how to repair them) and you're almost guaranteed to end up with a good finished product.

Alan

I'll have to confer with others, on making any money, on repairing that hull !
I pulled the outside glass from a Good friends canoes, about 5 yrs ago.
The hull was very flexible, and so I placed it on one of my strongback, with about 4 forms that closely mimicked the hull. The forms brought the hull back into a close shape of the original. It was then ready for glass.

A few spots required 6 layers of cloth patches, to build up low spots in the hull.
Fill those cracks with wood glue and sawdust.
Reglass with two layers, one after the other, of 6 oz glass, over the bottom, and up about 3" on the sides.

The hull I did is in very usable condition, and sees a lot of BWCA action yet today !

Would I spend the money to fix it ?

You have $200 invested so far .
I'd say go for it !

Jim