I am planning on testing a few boats out later this month at the local northstar dealer. What advice or suggestions can you offer for me to keep in mind while test paddling some solo boats? I was thinking of taking a fishing rod and of course evaluate if I feel stable enough in the seat and kneeling, test how well the boat turns and goes straight etc., but no idea what else I should consider or do. I don't have a favorite paddle, just random ones that came with canoes i have bought so probably just use whatever the dealer has on hand.
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Things to keep in mind on a test paddle
- Thread starter mdkelley
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Try a couple of quality different dealer paddles if possible (could lead to an additional sale). Don't just go straight and do turns, but also sideslip and draw. Vary your speed to see how comfortable it is. Simulate a strong headwind by sprinting for a fair distance, then relax with easy strokes to see how that feels. Good at any speed? If there happens to be a fair wind, paddle and turn in different directions. Try a panic turn at speed (rock ahead!!) If there is a dock, try to enter from it and exit directly onto it. Enter and exit from low shore if present and again while standing in shallow water using your favorite method (step straight in, or side sit).
It's hard to say. It will depend on how much canoeing experience/skill you have. It will also depend on how much work/effort you want to put into learning to paddle a new hull that might be different than what you currently have. I have no intention of being derogatory but I'm guessing if you're wondering what to look for on a test paddle that you might not have a ton of experience in more performance oriented hulls.
If that's the case then what you're planning on doing sounds perfect reasonable. Just take it for a paddle and see how it feels. There is no sense it attempting complicated moves if you don't know how to execute those moves. Take along some empty dry bags and partially fill them with water to mimic the load you'll normally have when paddling. That can make a big difference in stability as well as maneuverability/tracking.
If you want a really maneuverable boat for running rivers and rapids then do some playing to be sure it's responsive enough.
If you're looking for a straight tracking boat for lake travel then make sure you can paddle it in a straight line easy enough.
Paddle multiple directions to the wind, assuming there is wind, to see how it responds and how well you can control it. Shift your load forward/backward to see how it improves (or not) in the wind.
And look at the uses other people have for that particular hull and their skill level. If you want a lake fishing boat and most other people use it as a fast water river boat then it's probably not the best match. A really skilled paddler can make anything paddle straight or nearly spin in a circle. But if you don't have the time or desire to really gain those skills then it's probably best to find something that fits your style "off the shelf."
Alan
If that's the case then what you're planning on doing sounds perfect reasonable. Just take it for a paddle and see how it feels. There is no sense it attempting complicated moves if you don't know how to execute those moves. Take along some empty dry bags and partially fill them with water to mimic the load you'll normally have when paddling. That can make a big difference in stability as well as maneuverability/tracking.
If you want a really maneuverable boat for running rivers and rapids then do some playing to be sure it's responsive enough.
If you're looking for a straight tracking boat for lake travel then make sure you can paddle it in a straight line easy enough.
Paddle multiple directions to the wind, assuming there is wind, to see how it responds and how well you can control it. Shift your load forward/backward to see how it improves (or not) in the wind.
And look at the uses other people have for that particular hull and their skill level. If you want a lake fishing boat and most other people use it as a fast water river boat then it's probably not the best match. A really skilled paddler can make anything paddle straight or nearly spin in a circle. But if you don't have the time or desire to really gain those skills then it's probably best to find something that fits your style "off the shelf."
Alan
Don’t pay to demo anything. Imagine going into a car dealership and they say it will be $xxxxx dollars to demo and if you purchase they will apply to the purchase!!! Ridiculous!
As you are only limiting yourself to Northstar and looking for stability to use as a fishing platform, the Trillium or Northwind Solo would come to mind, depending on your size. Most Northstar dealers have the demos set with low seats for stability when test paddling. Spend as much time as the dealer allows, and test in less-than-ideal conditions (wind, current or chop) if you can. Shame you are limiting yourself to Northstar though.
Try them solo and with a partner. Stand up in them. Heel them over.
Check for damage. Check the rocker. Bring a tape measure.
Check for damage. Check the rocker. Bring a tape measure.
Alan, you are 100% correct, I have zero time in a solo let alone a performance oriented solo. Over 40 years in heavy, clunky tandems and ready to finally get a nice light boat as a retirement gift to myself. Been wanting one for several years now, just haven't had time to go try any out until now.
The Northstar dealer is near Ann Arbor (where I am at currently helping take care of wife's elderly family) so I am going to test paddle several models but am open to other brands if there are any within a couple hours drive that I can test paddle. I am not deadset on Northstar, but I figured they should have at least one model that may work for me. Even if I don't like any of their models at least I get some time in a solo boat. I have been paddling since I was very young, always in heavy aluminum or fiberglass boats. I was given a plastic old town a couple years ago so I have some time in plastic now also. The few solo river trips I have taken were all in large tandems paddled solo. Most of the trips (lake and river) I have taken over the years were with another paddler on board. I have spent a lot of time solo on a lake in a tandem canoe fishing but that is much different than tripping.
Being that I have never been in a solo canoe (I have been in several kayaks, one was an ultralight performance boat) I wasn't sure if there were specifics I needed to consider. It sounds like just general handling characteristics and maybe make sure my pack will fit and that there is enough room to move stuff around to balance a load (big tandems always have room). Guessing most of the paddle strokes I know and use when solo in a tandem will work the same in a solo boat, maybe just take less effort. All the front seat strokes I know are probably less useful. Guessing the rear seat strokes all transfer over pretty well but I accept that I will have some learning curve. I don't think it will be too big of an adjustment overall, probably just make me regret not getting a nice solo boat years ago.
Plan for the first few years of retirement is for the wife to work remote (she has a few years left until retirement) from the 5th wheel and I will explore local lakes/rivers wherever we are camping. Really wanted one do-it-all boat but may end up getting an ultra light lake-oriented boat and take one of my current boats along for rougher use in rivers. Hoping test paddling a few models will help me decide. At this point I don't really need specific boat recommendations, I need to figure out my use case and what style boat will fit the majority of my needs best.
The Northstar dealer is near Ann Arbor (where I am at currently helping take care of wife's elderly family) so I am going to test paddle several models but am open to other brands if there are any within a couple hours drive that I can test paddle. I am not deadset on Northstar, but I figured they should have at least one model that may work for me. Even if I don't like any of their models at least I get some time in a solo boat. I have been paddling since I was very young, always in heavy aluminum or fiberglass boats. I was given a plastic old town a couple years ago so I have some time in plastic now also. The few solo river trips I have taken were all in large tandems paddled solo. Most of the trips (lake and river) I have taken over the years were with another paddler on board. I have spent a lot of time solo on a lake in a tandem canoe fishing but that is much different than tripping.
Being that I have never been in a solo canoe (I have been in several kayaks, one was an ultralight performance boat) I wasn't sure if there were specifics I needed to consider. It sounds like just general handling characteristics and maybe make sure my pack will fit and that there is enough room to move stuff around to balance a load (big tandems always have room). Guessing most of the paddle strokes I know and use when solo in a tandem will work the same in a solo boat, maybe just take less effort. All the front seat strokes I know are probably less useful. Guessing the rear seat strokes all transfer over pretty well but I accept that I will have some learning curve. I don't think it will be too big of an adjustment overall, probably just make me regret not getting a nice solo boat years ago.
Plan for the first few years of retirement is for the wife to work remote (she has a few years left until retirement) from the 5th wheel and I will explore local lakes/rivers wherever we are camping. Really wanted one do-it-all boat but may end up getting an ultra light lake-oriented boat and take one of my current boats along for rougher use in rivers. Hoping test paddling a few models will help me decide. At this point I don't really need specific boat recommendations, I need to figure out my use case and what style boat will fit the majority of my needs best.
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That will depend on where you normally sit when you paddle a tandem when solo. If you sit near the center then, yeah, it won't be much different. If you sit close to one of the stems then it might be more different than you think.
When seated in the stern you can only control the stern. When seated in the bow you can only control the bow. When seated in the center you can control either one.
If you perform a draw stroke from the stern then the canoe will turn. If you perform a draw stroke from the center then the entire canoe will slide sideways with no turning.
It might take some getting used to and might feel frustrating at first.
Alan
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Do you want to fish standing or sitting?
Any dog plans?
Take a bag or 2 that is similar in weight that younthink you trip with if you want to trip with it . Some boats are great empty and not so good loaded . Others are the otherway around..
Split the testing of paddles and boats.
Take your paddle that you know test boats first and next the paddles.
If you change both, that makes it harder to find out what part is boat , what part is paddle.
Any dog plans?
Take a bag or 2 that is similar in weight that younthink you trip with if you want to trip with it . Some boats are great empty and not so good loaded . Others are the otherway around..
Split the testing of paddles and boats.
Take your paddle that you know test boats first and next the paddles.
If you change both, that makes it harder to find out what part is boat , what part is paddle.
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I think you're fine sticking with Northstar. I suggest comparing Phoenix and NW Solo directly...both are friendly, broadly capable boats that can handle just about anything.
If you're on the fence between two boats I'd say go for the more stable/tame one because if you think a boat feels a bit tippy during a test paddle it's going to feel worse in wind and current.
Food for thought for your use case...a river oriented boat like Phoenix is better for learning a wide variety of strokes than a lake oriented boat so it might be best for learning and would also let you learn freestyle moves if you like...your local lakes are perfect. On the other hand a lake oriented boat like NW Solo is better for cruising and covering miles and was the type of boat I always used on the Huron since I appreciated the efficiency for paddling upstream plus you don't need a hard core river boat on the Huron.
If you're on the fence between two boats I'd say go for the more stable/tame one because if you think a boat feels a bit tippy during a test paddle it's going to feel worse in wind and current.
Food for thought for your use case...a river oriented boat like Phoenix is better for learning a wide variety of strokes than a lake oriented boat so it might be best for learning and would also let you learn freestyle moves if you like...your local lakes are perfect. On the other hand a lake oriented boat like NW Solo is better for cruising and covering miles and was the type of boat I always used on the Huron since I appreciated the efficiency for paddling upstream plus you don't need a hard core river boat on the Huron.
building on Alan's post, if you continue that draw into a straight stroke, followed with a j stroke in one continuous motion, you've just discovered the "solo C", a nice method of controlling both ends in a single stroke at slower speeds, and the foundation of many other control strokes. In fact if you watch canoe ballet you'll soon notice most single- side control strokes use variations of this stroke to spin, sideslip, carve, and even to circle a buoy.
Test paddling with little experience in solo canoes is tricky. The first time I did was in a model that was actually a pretty good design, but it didn't feel good to me so I passed on it. If I was to get in that canoe now, I'm sure I would like it.
(ETA: this was coming from considerable experience in soloing tandem canoes)
A while after that, I found another used solo that had a reputation as a pretty lively (aka "tippy") high performance hull that was intimidating to some, but the price was too attractive to pass up. My first few hours in it had me doubting that I would like it enough to keep it. But as I got more familiar with it, I grew to like it very much. Although it wasn't exactly designed with that in mind, I eventually was comfortable enough to even fish from it. If I had gone to test paddle this canoe at or near the price of new, I very likely would not have risked buyer's remorse.
Now when I see inexperienced paddlers expressing dislike for a particular solo canoe, I tend to assume that I would like it a lot.
Just something to keep in mind, especially if you're willing to work through the challenge of more performance oriented hull.
(ETA: this was coming from considerable experience in soloing tandem canoes)
A while after that, I found another used solo that had a reputation as a pretty lively (aka "tippy") high performance hull that was intimidating to some, but the price was too attractive to pass up. My first few hours in it had me doubting that I would like it enough to keep it. But as I got more familiar with it, I grew to like it very much. Although it wasn't exactly designed with that in mind, I eventually was comfortable enough to even fish from it. If I had gone to test paddle this canoe at or near the price of new, I very likely would not have risked buyer's remorse.
Now when I see inexperienced paddlers expressing dislike for a particular solo canoe, I tend to assume that I would like it a lot.
Just something to keep in mind, especially if you're willing to work through the challenge of more performance oriented hull.
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in this boat, likely just sit and cast fishing while exploring new lakes. I have a sportspal I will use if I need to stand and fish, it is like a floating dock.
dogs probably will stay in the air conditioned camper with the wife, they are couch hounds.
I will grab my backpack the next time I am north at my storage unit. Hopefully that will be before my test paddle.
If you’re not in an absolute hurry for a canoe, I’d suggest attending the Western Pennsylvania Solo Canoe Rendezvous (WPaSCR) https://wpascr.org/. It’s held on the first full weekend in June (with early arrival and a potluck dinner on Friday).
The website has most of the information you need (including the dates and contact information). There are a number of builders who regularly attend with a selection of their canoes (tandem and solo) as well as a lot of personally owned canoes that you are usually welcome to paddle (just ask permission).
The website has most of the information you need (including the dates and contact information). There are a number of builders who regularly attend with a selection of their canoes (tandem and solo) as well as a lot of personally owned canoes that you are usually welcome to paddle (just ask permission).
Well, had a short test paddle today in a nw solo and a phoenix. Honestly, I couldn't tell much difference between the two other than the phoenix was shorter and I liked the kneeling seat much better than the low seat in the nw solo. The low seat with foot brace was uncomfortable on my hip joints, kneeling felt great. Paddling on a pond for a few minutes only told me that I am going to have a learning curve going to a solo boat and I don't know enough to feel the subtle differences in those 2 hulls. Most likely either boat would work fine for me. Dealer had a starlite nw solo and BL HD phoenix in stock. He did say for my use profile, the fact that I am cautious and take good care of my gear and doing mostly Michigan waters I would be fine with a starlite, even in most rivers. He said he has hit things and the starlite boat just flexes, have to hit something sharp to cause a real problem. He also said either boat would work fine for my use. So, still unsure of what would make the most sense. I need to figure out my use profile, or just get a boat and start to learn it.
I'm not sure if Starlight is the same as the KevLight layup of the olden days but I had a Kevlight Bell Magic back in the day and put on thousands of lake and river miles. Hit a lot of things and drug over plenty of logs, rocks, and gravel bars. It got plenty of scratches and the gel coat was prone to spider cracking but nothing that required repairs or patching.
From what you describe I don't think you need a very robust layup. But if going tougher makes you more comfortable then go for it.
Alan
From what you describe I don't think you need a very robust layup. But if going tougher makes you more comfortable then go for it.
Alan
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Your experience paddling a solo canoe is similar to what most of us experienced when starting out. You can read and read until you're blue in the face trying to figure out what's the perfect hull for you but until you spend a lot of hours in a solo and gain quite a bit of experience it's really hard to tell, even when paddling different boats. The more experience you have the easier it is to notice the difference between hulls.
I often recommend people just buy something, anything. Get something cheap and roughly what you think you want. Then paddle it a lot. Then you'll figure out what you do and don't like and you'll be able to recognize it better when shopping for a nicer boat.
But, on the other hand, if money isn't that big of an obstacle, and as long as you don't go crazy and buy some specialized hull design, you can just buy a hull that is suited to the kind of paddling you like to do and learn to paddle it. Familiarity with a boat is often more important than the boat itself.
Alan
I often recommend people just buy something, anything. Get something cheap and roughly what you think you want. Then paddle it a lot. Then you'll figure out what you do and don't like and you'll be able to recognize it better when shopping for a nicer boat.
But, on the other hand, if money isn't that big of an obstacle, and as long as you don't go crazy and buy some specialized hull design, you can just buy a hull that is suited to the kind of paddling you like to do and learn to paddle it. Familiarity with a boat is often more important than the boat itself.
Alan
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Seat height can be a pita both ways..
Both boats are forgiving aimed at the same wieght people..the nw tracks a.little better. All ns boats are built to last .
If you take time to get the solo skillset most can be done in either boat. Transfering to an other boat will be easier ,
Then staying longwr in tandem boats.
Hope you had a good day and i.am curious what will end up o. The roofrack
Both boats are forgiving aimed at the same wieght people..the nw tracks a.little better. All ns boats are built to last .
If you take time to get the solo skillset most can be done in either boat. Transfering to an other boat will be easier ,
Then staying longwr in tandem boats.
Hope you had a good day and i.am curious what will end up o. The roofrack
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Good for you...good start. I agree that Starlight would be just fine and that either Phoenix or NW Solo would work fine for you.
Alan makes an interesting point...it can take months or years to really get to know a boat well.
Did you love the Phoenix? What are your next steps? If you want to drive a couple hours to the west side of MI you're welcome to try my Keewaydin 15 and if you like it I might sell it to you.
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The kee 15 is close to the nw solo. If the price is a lot better then a new ns. I would take the option. Spent some of the saved cash on a mixmof paddles coaching and trips.
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