New To Canoe, But Not To Paddling

[Rusty Ole' Bucket]

Hi everyone. I've been lurking for a while but got tired of not being able to see y'alls pictures so I decided to sign up.

I've been kayak fishing for about 15 years now. I have a big fat nasty Ascend 128T that has served me well, I've caught a lot of fish out of that thing. I've even done a few week long large lake excursions. It's heavy, it's a wind sail, but I've loved the thing and it's always gotten me back to the truck.

Well, enter my doctor and a cardio stress test, next thing I know I'm having open heart surgery, quintuple bypass, that was last May. Long story short, I can no longer handle a 130 pound fishing log. I'm only in my late 50s so there's no way I'm ready to stop fishing or paddling but my doctor said I need an equipment change to something lighter. I'm a bigger guy, 6' and 235 pounds. I looked around for a kayak that would fit the bill and couldn't find anything rated for enough weight and in my budget (yeah, that thing reared it's ugly head) that I liked. My wife suggested a small canoe so I started looking at canoes on Marketplace. I found a gently used Old Town Sportsman 119 and managed to work out a deal that fit into the "B" word thing. It cuts the weight considerably and still leaves me with a little weight room for gear. The main thing is it gets me back on the water.

If I really get into it and like the canoe over a kayak, I could see myself upgrading to a new lighter boat in the future. I'd love to hear some suggestions for a logical upgrade from the Old Town considering my situation. I'm also VERY open to finding something (like a tandem) and modifying it to a solo boat. I love tinkering and working on stuff. I live down south in the US and spend a lot of time on the water, fishing, camping and just exploring. I added Paddleways to phone a while back and have really enjoyed the extra info on places to paddle. I'm definitely interested in expedition canoeing and could see that in my future as well, there's lots of rivers, lakes and marshes around here to explore.

My wife and I have also talked about a tandem canoe we could paddle together, but it sounds like it's going to be hard to get her off her own kayak. I kinda like my own boat too, she can do her thing while I fish. We go out together often, so it may be a thing one day.

Thanks for the great paddling information resource! I'm looking forward to learning more about canoeing, canoe tripping and talking with y'all.

Rusty

 

[Boatman53]

Welcome to the campfire Rusty. Looking forward reading about your experiences.
If you share your location there might be someone near by you can get together with.
Jim

 

[Rusty Ole' Bucket]

Thanks Jim, I live down in South Louisiana. I'm really looking forward to hanging out with you guys.


Rusty

 

[Gamma1214]

Welcome. I'd not heard of paddleways... Might have to look into that.

People often seem surprised that canoes typically weigh less than yaks. They're also easier to get gear in & out of so I doubt that you'll ever go back.

Besides, you simply look better paddling with a canoe paddle instead of flailing around like a trashing machine, beating the water with a yak paddle. Welcome to the cool kid's club.

 

[Rusty Ole' Bucket]

Thanks for the welcome Gamma!

You're probably right about never going back to kayaks, I'll know after this weekend. We have a family trip planned to Percy Quin state park in Mississippi, on Lake Tangipahoa and I'll be fishing out of it for the first time. The early morning and late evening topwater bite there is usually pretty good in the summer and there's some lunkers in that lake. It's been 2 years since I wet a hook, to say I'm excited about my new boat and fishing out of it this weekend is an understatement. I spent a lot of time researching new kayaks that would fit the bill and came up blank, they were either too heavy and not really a change or weren't rated high enough in weight capacity. I need a BIG yak.

Now as far as a double blade, you might be hard pressed to make me give up my favorite paddle. I have a carbon fiber angler style double blade that I love to "flail" with. It's a 260mm and super light, I'm pretty sure it's gonna make that little light canoe fly. That said, I've always have both a double and single blade paddle on my kayak. When I'm actively fishing I use the single blade almost exclusively and use the double to move from location to location. My grandpa taught me some single blade, single hand techniques for moving a boat around while fishing and they work great for a kayak, I'm assuming they'll work the same for a solo canoe. I also know the single blade single side paddle technique a lot of you guys use, another gift from Pop. I don't honestly know yet, I do know I'm excited to try it all out tomorrow.

Rusty

 

[lowangle al]

Welcome to the world of canoeing Rusty, I hope it a good switch for you. As far as fishing goes, the canoe won't be as good of a fishing vessel as your Kayak because they are more affected by the wind. I've found that working with the wind is better than fighting it. Where and how I fish is dictated by the wind. I determine which way the wind will blow me, then decide where to start my drift to put me over the most productive water. I can't alway fish the water I want to, but I've also caught fish in places I've never tried before.

When I'm fishing I try not to use my paddle any more than I have to, figuring that it's more productive to have a line in the water. Trolling is also productive, just use a lure that won't twist your line. When you are drifting you will cover much more water than in your kayak, so choose your lure accordingly. I prefer inline spinners to a rubber worms for better line control, as an example, but guys in the boat with me do well on plastics. I never anchor up, but that could be an option.

My general rule is to not let the fishing ruin a good paddle, but when the bite is on it's hard. Sometimes after several days of good fishing I start to miss my "paddles" and will intentionally leave my rods home. Good luck and have fun.

 

[stripperguy]

Mr Bucket,
Glad to hear you are active again after the surgery, hopefully you’ll have a few more decades of fun to come.
As the others said, welcome to the group, we love pics, so feel free to share when you get back from this trip.
One way to get a high performance canoe at a bargain price is build one yourself. We have a large group of experienced builders here that could mentor you, virtually, or maybe even in real life. A quality build could cost as little as $600, and would be huge step up from anything else in that price range.
Based on the fact that you are literate, I know you already possess the required skills, namely the ability to think. Everything else is just a series of small steps…

 

[Roybrew]

Welcome Rusty Ole' Bucket,
Exactly what stripperguy said about building a canoe. I found it very enjoyable and rewarding. My first build is a 16' tandem weighing 70#. My wife and I love it, it can be used solo and it can haul a lot of gear. Use local Mom and pop sawmill lumber, or even sawmill lumber a buddy has had stored in a barn. Cypress, yellow poplar, red cedar, sassafras, cherry, fir or any other wood that isn't to awfully heavy. White cedar and Western cedars are what most prefer because it's lighter by average 10# per board/ft from the woods I mentioned. Sorry to ramble on about it, I'm jonesing to build another one this winter, especially after reading Gamma's build, killing me. Some of these guys on here are experts and will give you great advice about building one.

Louisiana you say, wife and I are in East TN. We been wanting to get that way one of these days, maybe around Christmas time. Cooler and less tourists.

I love fishing out of my canoe, I'll stick it in some big patch of lilly pads or hydrilla weeds so the wind doesn't push me around. Drop and work some plastic into pockets after dragging it over the tops of that stuff. Drifting shallow rivers is a blast.

Love that river fishing!

I better shut up and get the yard mowed.
Roy

 

[Rusty Ole' Bucket]

Welcome to the world of canoeing Rusty, I hope it a good switch for you. As far as fishing goes, the canoe won't be as good of a fishing vessel as your Kayak because they are more affected by the wind. I've found that working with the wind is better than fighting it. Where and how I fish is dictated by the wind. I determine which way the wind will blow me, then decide where to start my drift to put me over the most productive water. I can't alway fish the water I want to, but I've also caught fish in places I've never tried before.

When I'm fishing I try not to use my paddle any more than I have to, figuring that it's more productive to have a line in the water. Trolling is also productive, just use a lure that won't twist your line. When you are drifting you will cover much more water than in your kayak, so choose your lure accordingly. I prefer inline spinners to a rubber worms for better line control, as an example, but guys in the boat with me do well on plastics. I never anchor up, but that could be an option.

My general rule is to not let the fishing ruin a good paddle, but when the bite is on it's hard. Sometimes after several days of good fishing I start to miss my "paddles" and will intentionally leave my rods home. Good luck and have fun.

Thanks for the welcome Al. I'm no stranger to being blown around, the Ascend 128T is a battleship with a lot of freeboard, it gets blown around like crazy. You definitely have to work with the wind, there's no fighting it. I use a lot of the same tactics as you to make it work. I also use a drag chain to slow me down or a 10 pound folding anchor on an anchor trolley. I get ya on the paddle verses fishing ratio. Sometimes I like to just drop the rod and float if there's a moving current and for sure if there's no action I tend to go exploring.

Rusty

 

[Rusty Ole' Bucket]

Mr Bucket,
Glad to hear you are active again after the surgery, hopefully you’ll have a few more decades of fun to come.
As the others said, welcome to the group, we love pics, so feel free to share when you get back from this trip.
One way to get a high performance canoe at a bargain price is build one yourself. We have a large group of experienced builders here that could mentor you, virtually, or maybe even in real life. A quality build could cost as little as $600, and would be huge step up from anything else in that price range.
Based on the fact that you are literate, I know you already possess the required skills, namely the ability to think. Everything else is just a series of small steps…

Thanks for the warm welcome Stripperguy!

My doc said since we caught this before I had a heart attack, there's no reason I shouldn't be able to live into my 90s if I take care of myself. I'm trying very hard to do that. I honestly didn't know I had a problem until my doctor sent me for the stress test and found the blockages. I was totally asymptomatic, even though I had what they referred to as a "widow maker" condition. I was a ticking time bomb. I'm doing great now, and I would encourage everyone to go take a stress test. It's easy, it doesn't take long, it's usually covered by your insurance and it can most definitely save your life.

I'll definitely drop some pictures after my trip this weekend. Hopefully I'll have at least one great "Bill Dance Shot" for you too. My canoe is bone stock, so I'll pop a couple of pictures once I rig it for the weekend. I'm going to shoot with my GoPro, stills and videos, so I'll post up the video of me landing the 10 pounder in my new boat.

Thank you for the vote of confidence, I love working with wood and could definitely get around the idea of building my own solo canoe. I have the space and I think I have a great wood source close.

Rusty

 

[Rusty Ole' Bucket]

Welcome Rusty Ole' Bucket,
Exactly what stripperguy said about building a canoe. I found it very enjoyable and rewarding. My first build is a 16' tandem weighing 70#. My wife and I love it, it can be used solo and it can haul a lot of gear. Use local Mom and pop sawmill lumber, or even sawmill lumber a buddy has had stored in a barn. Cypress, yellow poplar, red cedar, sassafras, cherry, fir or any other wood that isn't to awfully heavy. White cedar and Western cedars are what most prefer because it's lighter by average 10# per board/ft from the woods I mentioned. Sorry to ramble on about it, I'm jonesing to build another one this winter, especially after reading Gamma's build, killing me. Some of these guys on here are experts and will give you great advice about building one.

Louisiana you say, wife and I are in East TN. We been wanting to get that way one of these days, maybe around Christmas time. Cooler and less tourists.

I love fishing out of my canoe, I'll stick it in some big patch of lilly pads or hydrilla weeds so the wind doesn't push me around. Drop and work some plastic into pockets after dragging it over the tops of that stuff. Drifting shallow rivers is a blast.View attachment 148011
View attachment 148012
Love that river fishing!

I better shut up and get the yard mowed.
Roy

Thanks for the welcome Roy!

Your boat looks amazing in the pictures, I'd love to craft something like that. I'm really getting into the idea actually. My grandfather gave me a love of woodworking as a kid and it lasts to this day. I'm not a good as he was, but I try. Since live down here, the closest town to me has a sinker cypress shop in it that has rough cut slabs for sale, anything for 1/2" to 1 1/2" thick, milled with one straight long side. After our vacation weekend, we're going to talk to them about getting a slab to make a yard planter and trellis for my wife. I bet they have what I need for a killer cypress canoe.

My grandpa had a cypress pirouge that he and his father had made when he was young. It was stolen out of our yard a couple of years back, off the side of the shop, where it had hung for almost 100 years. We're pretty sure it was someone we know, we're almost a mile off the road on a family farm, and have dogs, large dogs, it had to be someone that came around fairly often. We were all sick, I scoured to local area hoping to see it but had no luck. I'm sure it was carried away and sold and now that Pop is gone it still hits me sometimes and I get mad all over again. I'd love to build a canoe out of cypress as a way to honor to him. He and my grandma raised me, he was very important and special to me. He taught me how to be a man.

If y'all come down here around Christmas, make sure to hollar at me. You're right about that time of the year, less tourist (although New Orleans is magical at Christmas time), less bugs, and it's not hotter than satan's taint. We'll go for a paddle and check out some of the local spots. I usually take off that week, my wedding aniversery is the 23rd.

Rusty

 

[stripperguy]

Just for reference, dried cypress is 32 lb/cu ft, western red cedar is 22 lb/cu ft.
An average solo canoe has roughly one cu ft of wood in it, so a cypress hull wouldn’t be too much of a penalty, weight-wise.

 

[Gamma1214]

Cut strip thickness to 3/16 (most builders use 1/4 inch Cedar) and there's virtually no penalty at all (except that 3/16 inch Cedar would still be lighter).

I've got some Cypress lined up in South Carolina if I can get it picked up this Fall... just be forewarned that building is addictive. (and you should still do it!)

 

[Whit30]

As another old guy in the Southeast, welcome to the wonderful world of open boats and single blades.
You asked about upgrading your Sportsman when the time comes. Id suggest looking into Esquif and T-Formax Lite if you dont want to baby your boat. Way lighter than poly and still plenty tough. Given you size, weight, and possibly wanting the option to tandem, Id suggest looking into their Prospecteur 15 or 16 for a great all around boat. Good friend about your size paddles his 16 solo all the time in reverse from the bow seat, and sometimes even uses a 260mm kayak paddle which is blasphemy, lol, but if it works it works. Or look for something similar used in Royalex. I own the Esquif Echo and also an an old Royalex Old Town Pack, both solo canoes but both a bit too small for someone your your size Imo. A 14 ft solo or 15-16' tandem in Royalex or T Forrmax, w around 500lb capacity would be my suggestion.
Or you may want to look into the Old Town Next pack boat, but Id consider the weight savings and capacity seriously first because it's the same heavy material as your Sportsman.
If you dont mind treating your boat with tender loving care, always paddle deeper water, and always getting your feet wet on entry and exit, then save up a little longer and spend 2x+ the money on an ultra light carbon/kevlar composite boat and revel in the luxury of toting it with one hand.
Wood strippers are great too if you can afford the time/effort to build and or $$$$s to purchase.

 

[Rusty Ole' Bucket]

As another old guy in the Southeast, welcome to the wonderful world of open boats and single blades.
You asked about upgrading your Sportsman when the time comes. Id suggest looking into Esquif and T-Formax Lite if you dont want to baby your boat. Way lighter than poly and still plenty tough. Given you size, weight, and possibly wanting the option to tandem, Id suggest looking into their Prospecteur 15 or 16 for a great all around boat. Good friend about your size paddles his 16 solo all the time in reverse from the bow seat, and sometimes even uses a 260mm kayak paddle which is blasphemy, lol, but if it works it works. Or look for something similar used in Royalex. I own the Esquif Echo and also an an old Royalex Old Town Pack, both solo canoes but both a bit too small for someone your your size Imo. A 14 ft solo or 15-16' tandem in Royalex or T Forrmax, w around 500lb capacity would be my suggestion.
Or you may want to look into the Old Town Next pack boat, but Id consider the weight savings and capacity seriously first because it's the same heavy material as your Sportsman.
If you dont mind treating your boat with tender loving care, always paddle deeper water, and always getting your feet wet on entry and exit, then save up a little longer and spend 2x+ the money on an ultra light carbon/kevlar composite boat and revel in the luxury of toting it with one hand.
Wood strippers are great too if you can afford the time/effort to build and or $$$$s to purchase.

Thanks for the welcome Whit. After taking my new boat out this weekend, I'm hooked on canoes. I'm sure there will be more in my future. I'm not going to baby a boat, I have lots of sandy shallow water around here, so it sounds like the carbon/kevlar boats are out. I was really liking the idea of building something from scratch, but started thinking about that over the weekend as I was dragging my Old Town around. With the time and effort required to build from scratch, I'll cringe every time I drag it out on a pea gravel sandbar. I still may try a build, but it won't be my primary boat, it will just be for the fun of the build. My stuff has to hold up to being used, and used hard.

Rusty

 

[Gamma1214]

My stuff has to hold up to being used, and used hard.

I can understand the feeling that you might cringe when thinking of scratching up a stripper that you've built (many people like keeping nice things nice) but don't think that they can't be used hard. I practically dragged mine the length of the Steel River on it's maiden voyage, dropped it hard onto the Canadian Shield on one portage and hit plenty of rocks in rapids during the past 2 trips with very little damage (took a chunk out a gunwale once when I dropped it).

@memaquay and @Alan Gage can attest to durability even more than I can. Pretty sure mem has actually destroyed a couple and could tell just what it takes to do that. You could also watch the video that @Patrick Corry posted in this thread. Amazing what those boats can take!

 

[Whit30]

Composite kevelar/carbon/glass, or wood strip/glass layups can be made pretty tough and should hold up ok on coastal plain sand and gravel bars. But they will get scratched, and after a few seasons of hard use will prob have to be freshened up. So there is maintenance involved and care taken with loading/unloading. Can't just toss em in the back of an unlined truck bed or bang em on concrete/gravel parking lots.
T-Formax or Royalex should last you a lifetime in those conditions if you store it in a garage, barn, or at least under a shed. About the only thing that ruins them is prolonged exposure to ultraviolet rays, aka sunlight, or if you have wood gunwales they would need to be treated occasionally to keep them waterproof and free of rot. Wooden thwarts and bench seats can be easily replaced.

 

[stripperguy]

Home built hulls can be built as tough or as light as you may desire.
Selective placement of Dynel will nearly eliminate any accumulated abrasive wear. AFIK, no commercial hulls use Dynel in their layups.
I regularly abuse my hulls, beaver drags, beach launching/landing, unsupported loading, rock gardens... you name it.
I will say that anything you build will be easy to repair.
Royalex of T Formex is a bit more challenging to repair, and yes, those materials abrade more readily than Dynel...
Browse through some of the build threads here, my own jaded opinion says there is no better combo of cost and performance than a home built hull, whether stripper or full composite.
And I won't even mention the head trip of paddling something that you've built with your own two hands.

 

[Rusty Ole' Bucket]

Home built hulls can be built as tough or as light as you may desire.
Selective placement of Dynel will nearly eliminate any accumulated abrasive wear. AFIK, no commercial hulls use Dynel in their layups.
I regularly abuse my hulls, beaver drags, beach launching/landing, unsupported loading, rock gardens... you name it.
I will say that anything you build will be easy to repair.
Royalex of T Formex is a bit more challenging to repair, and yes, those materials abrade more readily than Dynel...
Browse through some of the build threads here, my own jaded opinion says there is no better combo of cost and performance than a home built hull, whether stripper or full composite.
And I won't even mention the head trip of paddling something that you've built with your own two hands.

I've never heard of Dynel; is that something like the synthetic boards used for decking?

Ok, so building my own may not be out of the question if I can make it a tank to handle the abuse I'll throw at it.

 

[Boatman53]

Dynel is a fabric like fiberglass it is woven and can conform to contours of a canoe. There is so much great information on this site for builders first time or experienced.
Jim