What canoe material is this?

[UrbanJ]

I recently purchased a used canoe and need to make a few repairs but I have NO idea what material was used in the construction. (Is this Royalex?)
I am hoping someone can help me out!
This canoe was a rental from the Shenandoah River Company and in the past they would build their own canoes so it is not a standard manufacturer.

Questions are:
1. Based on the cross section of the material in the pictures, can you tell what material it is built from?
2. Are the gouges deep enough to worry about as some appear to reach the second level of material?
3. What are the different repair methods I could utilize (heat / Urethane compound / Wax)
4. As you can see, I need to replace the decks. What would be my best option? (Build / purchase a few and try to fit them)

 

[memaquay]

Looks like Royalex to me. If those scratched you show are the worst of them, I wouldn't worry about it, that's pretty standard for royalex. I'm not sure about decks, if you wanted to class it up a little, you could replace all the gunwales and decks with wood. If not, there are plastic decls out there made for specific canoes that might fit.

 

[UrbanJ]

Even if the scratches are through the vinyl and into the pvc?
Should I fill them with West System 655 to make sure the damage doesn't get worse?
I am wondering if I should just make the decks from fiberglass as opposed to trying to find decks that would match.
I wish I knew who made the hull.

 

[scoutergriz]

I've made glass decks several times for old canoes needing some lovin'. A lot of those boats are out of production, so making your own is easier and cheaper than trying to find replacements.
It's actually very easy- tape some cellophane over the hull, extending past the bottom of the new deck. add a few layers of painters tape along what will be the ends of the cap (leaves a mark to grind to) glass the crap outa' it (I just use scrap cloth or matting) and layer another piece of cellophane over it and tape it down tight. next day pull the whole mess off, remove the cellophane and tape, grind to the marks, drill mounting and drainholes and you're done, the layers of cellophane should ensure a textured but smooth finish so the only sanding needed is along the trimmed edges and the drain hole.
you can even mix dye in for custom colouring

 

[Guest]

I rebuilt two Shenandoahs years ago. I don’t believe that Shenandoah molded their own Royalex Canoes, but instead bought naked hulls from Blue Hole, or maybe even used the original “Warsaw Rockets” from Uniroyal, and trimmed the hulls themselves.

The Royalex on both was massively thick, even at center sheer line. Heavy canoes. This pre-dated manufacturers specifying various thicknesses of Royalex sheets in different parts of the canoe.

Shanandoah’s outfitting, at least on the two I rebuilt, was crude, and peculiar. The crude part was that they used 1” square gunwale stock for both inwale and outwale, and it may have been local to them oak. They also used steel (not stainless steel) gunwale screws.

The oak did not weather well, and the steel screws rusted. The original gunwales were a huge PITA to remove. I expect that yours has been regunwaled.

The seats were peculiar, essentially a slatted, curved seat, akin to the bottom of an Adirondack chair. Those seats were comfortable though.

Deck plates could be a challenge. Maybe a deck cap, instead of the larger vinyl deck plates found on some RX canoes; those deck plates have a channel for the outwale that need to match the gunwale profile.

EDIT: A little Warsaw Rocket history

https://www.myccr.com/phpbbforum/vie...hp?f=20&t=5126

 

[UrbanJ]

Totally correct on the canoe seat.
The Gunwales were replaced with vinyl.

 

[Guest]

To be clear about the deck plate channel matching the gunwale profile, this is the gunwale channel on a Mohawk deck plate, which sorta looks like it might fit those cream-colored gunwales*

P5150003 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

This is the underside of those Mohawk gunwales; the gunwale channel does not extend all the way to the stem.

P5150004 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

Other manufacturer’s vinyl deck plates are similar in lacking the gunwale channel at the stems. You might be able to find an old set of deck plates and simply cut off the forward six inches.

Or use a deck cap, the smaller black thing here

P5150002 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

*Now for the bad news. I haven’t seen those cream colored gunwales on a canoe made in the last 40 years. Old Town used them on their early Chippewayans. Unlike the later black vinyl gunwales those cream colored gunwales lacked some UV inhibitor and every one I worked on had gone UV brittle.

 

[UrbanJ]

Sounds like I may be having to replace the gunwales in the future.
I am into woodworking and while I would love to replace with wood, I think I will stick to vinyl as it will be stored outside and will be less work... that is IF I choose to replace them.
Right now I am more worried about the integrity of the hull and making sure I cover up the open material on the deck as to not create "rot" issues.

 

[Guest]

I am into woodworking

Those are cool, classic Shenandoah seats . They are very strong, and would not be hard to replicate with fresh wood.

At least yours appear to have been framed straight. The ones I saved must have been Friday afternoon seats, they are crooked, and not in a tapered good way.

https://www.canoetripping.net/forums...tt-curvy-seats

Right now I am more worried about the integrity of the hull

In that regard be very careful with acetone or any solvents around the scraped vinyl skin showing black underneath. That black is the ABS layers between the vinyl skin and foam core; solvents can eat/dissolve that ABS layer, and penetrate into the foam core

Interesting to note how thick that black ABS layer is, on both sides of the foam core. On more modern Royalex boats the ABS layers are much thinner for weight savings, and the ABS layer under the vinyl skin on the inside of the hull thinner still.

 

[UrbanJ]

Should I not use G/Flex to fill in those scratches?
Should I go with an abs heat treatment?

 

[goonstroke]

Cool boat!

Those are some pretty modest scratches for a royalex boat, even a newer, thinner one. If it were mine, I'd revarnish the seats and get on the water.

The foam core exposed under the missing decks is not a concern for rot -- people usually leave the top of the hull open when they do wood gunwales and nothing bad happens (except cold cracks, but that's a different issue!).

 

[Guest]

Looks like Royalex to me. If those scratched you show are the worst of them, I wouldn't worry about it, that's pretty standard for royalex.

Cool boat!

Those are some pretty modest scratches for a royalex boat, even a newer, thinner one. If it were mine, I'd revarnish the seats and get on the water.

I’m with Memaquay and Goonstroke, I wouldn’t do much to it, especially before you know if the gunwales are still sound.

If some of the very deep scratches bother you maybe fill them with G/flex. If the stems are significantly worn, especially if the wear is through the vinyl and ABS layer and into the foam core, I’d install Dynel skid plates. If the Shenandoah has old worn/cracked skid plates you can add a layer of abrasion resistant Dynel over them after filling/repairing any cracks or voids.

https://www.canoetripping.net/forums...-and-retrofits

The vinyl skin is there mostly for UV protection, and so the hulls were not ABS black. If the aesthetics of the of the scratched up bottom really bother you maybe tape off the gunwales and paint the hull or, easier, tape off a scuff line half way up the canoe and just paint the bottom. Any paint you use, even pricey epoxy paint, will scrape off on low water rocks, so it is best to use a paint color that is close to the hull color.

If that is a Warsaw Rocket it is a piece of canoe history. I’d love to know what it weighs.

A little more Warsaw Rocket history. Perception trimmed out Warsaw Rockets as their early Chatooga and Nantahala models. Those first Royalex canoes were hot stuff at the time.

https://forums.paddling.com/t/percep...ga-canoe/75462

Maybe don’t try that at home.

 

[UrbanJ]

OK... that's pretty cool history and thank yo for sharing! (I LOVE HISTORY!! That's one of the best parts of living in Virginia.)
I am enjoying the heck out of the canoe and want to make sure it lasts a LOOOONG TIME!

I wish I knew if it originally had wood gunwales. I may pick up some ash and get it into my workshop.