Pat Moore Andante

[NoelCanoeDad]

I have heard tell of the Pat Moore Andante. I have talked to people that have demoed it with Pat but have never been able to find one in the flesh. I was beginning to think that Pat made one demo and it no longer existed. Discussing the spec sheet and write up by Pat Moore with Dave Curtis we both think the Andante was Pat’s design to be Ladybug ish. A more maneuverable and playful canoe. I have 9 Pat Moore molds and was unsure if the andante was one of them. When recently a Pat Moore Andante popped up on the Freestyle canoe facebook page for sale I had to have it. (Thanks Joe Geronimo and Marty Cuff for helping with transportation). Upon looking at the canoe I definitely have the mold. I will have it at the WPASCR for people to paddle. Does anyone else have any info on the Pat Moore Andante? Thanks Dustin

 

[dutchlennart]

It looks good. I would love to have a spin in it. As far as i know only one of his boars has made it to europe
Hope to see more pics of it and maybe even a vid with someone paddling it.

Enjoy it

 

[tketcham]

...the Andante was Pat’s design to be Ladybug ish.

In some ways, compared to Pat Moore's other designs, but it looks like there are some important differences between this hull and David Yost's Lady Bug. The biggest differences I see are the much fuller bow and stern of the Andante and the lack of a "bubble" center section. Not clear how much rocker the Andante has but to me, other than the sharp ends, it looks more like a white water canoe than a sport canoe, acknowledging that canoeing categories overlap a fair amount.



Added: Looking at the Andante some more, a seaworthy canoe with sharp ends could be a lot of fun. Make that dynamically seaworthy.

I will have it at the WPASCR for people to paddle.

I plan on being at the WPASCR so hope I get a chance to give your Andante a spin. I don't have my Lady Bug anymore but maybe someone will have one available for comparison.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

Looks like a really fun hull!

 

[NoelCanoeDad]

In some ways, compared to Pat Moore's other designs, but it looks like there are some important differences between this hull and David Yost's Lady Bug. The biggest differences I see are the much fuller bow and stern of the Andante and the lack of a "bubble" center section. Not clear how much rocker the Andante has but to me, other than the sharp ends, it looks more like a white water canoe than a sport canoe, acknowledging that canoeing categories overlap a fair amount.

View attachment 153478View attachment 153485

Added: Looking at the Andante some more, a seaworthy canoe with sharp ends could be a lot of fun.


I plan on being at the WPASCR so hope I get a chance to give your Andante a spin. I don't have my Lady Bug anymore but maybe someone will have one available for comparison.

I agree with every thing you pointed out. I did not mean it was a direct cross to the Ladybug just that it should preform similar. It’s funny you say that it looks like a whitewater canoe. When I got the mold I said the same thing about the mold looking to be a whitewater canoe before knowing it was the Andante mold. I have 2-3 ladybugs so I can bring one of those as well to compare performance. See you there!

 

[M Clemens]

At 12'6' it might be a fairer comparison to the Mayfly, if a comparison must be made. Some tidbits from CEW:

 

[tketcham]

I agree with every thing you pointed out. I did not mean it was a direct cross to the Ladybug just that it should preform similar. It’s funny you say that it looks like a whitewater canoe. When I got the mold I said the same thing about the mold looking to be a whitewater canoe before knowing it was the Andante mold. I have 2-3 ladybugs so I can bring one of those as well to compare performance. See you there!

I think M Clemens has it right. Given CEW's comments and the 12' 6" length, maybe the better canoe to compare with the Andante is the Curtis Mayfly. Bring the Lady Bug AND the Mayfly. (Easy for me to say, I'm not the one pulling a canoe trailer.)

 

[gumpus]

Reading the comments by CEW that M Clemens posted, and given the 12' 6" length, maybe the better canoe to compare with the Andante is the Curtis Mayfly. Bring the Lady Bug AND the Mayfly. (Easy for me to say, I'm not the one pulling a canoe trailer.)

Maybe the better canoe to compare to the Andante is a hollowed out telephone pole.

 

[dutchlennart]

Maybe the better canoe to compare to the Andante is a hollowed out telephone pole.

It sounds like you have first hand experiance and there is less primary stability.

 

[gumpus]

It sounds like you have first hand experiance and there is less primary stability.

No first hand experience. Just looking at the boat it appears that it would be happy or maybe even anxious to lean to the rail. I think part of Patrick's philosophy is that the paddler is responsible for keeping the paddler dry, not the boat.

 

[Gamma1214]

I think part of Patrick's philosophy is that the paddler is responsible for keeping the paddler dry, not the boat.

I think that's termed "playful" in the sales brochure.

 

[M Clemens]

Maybe the better canoe to compare to the Andante is a hollowed out telephone pole.

I think there may be a reason no one builds fish-form sport solo canoes sans tumblehome anymore, and DY designs (new and old) continue to fill the space.

 

[tketcham]

I think there may be a reason no one builds fish-form sport solo canoes sans tumblehome anymore...

That was my first thought, but then, most solo canoes sold nowadays seem to be designed for fishing, with an active dog or two. The demand for sporty canoes is far more limited these days.

I think part of Patrick's philosophy is that the paddler is responsible for keeping the paddler dry, not the boat.

To be fair, a lively sport canoe implies the paddler has some intent to, well, play. In calm warm water, on a sunny day, with a beach towel and dry clothes waiting on shore.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Pat Moore denied that his "cod head" canoes were fishform, if fishform is defined as having the center of buoyancy ahead of the longitudinal center. That misconception arises from the fact that an overhead plan view of his gunwale line (not his waterline) will show a gunwale flare ahead of the longitudinal center.

Pat strongly advocated moving the center of buoyancy aft, so that the center of one's forward stroke is abeam of the center of lateral resistance. That all requires a swedeform waterline, which is the opposite of a fishform waterline.

For example, here is his critique of the Canoe Magazine review of the Proem, which had said the canoe is wider front of center: "Regarding asymmetry, the reviewer grossly misunderstood the technical design of the Proem. Its center of buoyancy is radically AFT, not forward. Indeed, it is a full six-inches aft. . . . I can only guess that the reviewer must have taken a superficial look at the Proem's greatly flared freeboard in the bow and assumed his mistaken conclusions."

My guess is that Pat would have designed the Andante, which I've never seen, with similar principles to his Proem.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Some Moore Canoeing School pictures from the Wayback Machine. Where's the Andante?





This may be Pat and his instructors, Kimberly, Tom and Brian.

 

[NoelCanoeDad]