ocean canoeing

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has anyone here done this? I'm thinking of beach launching off of the florida atlantic coast, but I need a paddle boat for it. I was thinking a mad river canoe might be a good choice but all i ever see are kayak fisherman
 

Glenn MacGrady

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Sure. I used to take my Mad River Explorer out in San Francisco bay, both paddling and with a 2hp motor.

Of course, you have to go out in mild conditions, watch the weather carefully, and know how to handle a canoe in wind and waves. And don't go out any further than you can swim safely to shore -- considering the weather, the water temperature, how you're dressed, how old you are, and your physical condition.
 
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Done it many times as the ocean is an hour away. Also regularly every winter on the Gulf Coast of FL. I have no experience with the rip currents sometimes found on the Atlantic side.

Mad River canoe could be a good or lousy choice. I would not pick a Mad River Slipper. I would pick a Mad River Monarch.

We will be leaving soon to paddle on Lake Superior. Have done that in a tandem canoe but this time chose a kayak and a sea canoe (the Monarch). Easier to deal with swells when the ends are comparatively light and the paddler in the middle of the craft.
 
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what about the adventure? the rotomolded plastic ones they have now
 
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No. Not till you figure out how you will reenter after you get swamped or flip. Don't even try to pretend it will never happen. Denial never helps.

I know it looks almost like a SOT tandem kayak but it's not as stable and it lacks things to hold onto and scupper holes to drain it of water. You need something to grab onto to get back in.
 
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I would pick a Mad River Monarch.

We will be leaving soon to paddle on Lake Superior. Have done that in a tandem canoe but this time chose a kayak and a sea canoe (the Monarch). Easier to deal with swells when the ends are comparatively light and the paddler in the middle of the craft.

Kim, I’ll be interested in what you think of the Monarch as a tripper for big open water. Looking forward to the trip report.
 
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So far it worked well on a three day trip in Muscongus Bay.. We had comfort gear too. I hope it has enough capacity as my mate is paddling a low volume Greenland style kayak. Guess who gets the bigger stuff?
 
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So far it worked well on a three day trip in Muscongus Bay.. We had comfort gear too. I hope it has enough capacity as my mate is paddling a low volume Greenland style kayak. Guess who gets the bigger stuff?

If you don’t already have a storage cover for your Monarch for use in-camp use the cover for a Pamlico 145 or 160 fit well on the Monarch.

I don’t like flipping a rudder boat upside down on the ground, and using a storage cover in camp lets me keep the paddling gear inside the boat and dry.
 
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Got a spray cover. But we may have to flip the boat over anyway. I am not sure I can get all the food in hard sided containers. We will be in known pest bear country where there have been attacks.
 
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Got a spray cover. But we may have to flip the boat over anyway. I am not sure I can get all the food in hard sided containers. We will be in known pest bear country where there have been attacks.

my mate is paddling a low volume Greenland style kayak.

Does the kayak have sealed bulkheads? I know folks who use their kayak hatches for food (and sometimes water) critter protection, and who for that very reason do not drill a tiny air pressure vent hole in the bulkhead.

I occasionally carry excess/starter foods in soft containers or dry bags, but I eat through that first and hang it in camp; I wouldn’t want to dispute ownership with a bear that was grubbing under the decks of my Monarch.

A 30L or even 60L blue barrel will fit behind the seat in the Monarch, although the 60 leaves zero room for trim adjustment. The 30L allows for about a foot of fore or aft adjustment.

I use a couple of these squat (_) barrels in lieu of the 30L on no-portage trips.

http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/CooperMcCrea/media/January%20Shop%20Days/P1250589.jpg.html?sort=2&o=3

Those fit under the decks much better than a \_/ shaped screw-top bucket and allow for easier trim adjustment, especially on trips where I’m carrying all of my potable water and give that weight priority placement near the center of the hull.

The Monarch is pretty benign in most wind and wave conditions, but it is trim sensitive in following seas and the ability to shift gear weight without repacking the entire hull is helpful.
 
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Back to the original question

Back to the original question

Of course, you have to go out in mild conditions, watch the weather carefully, and know how to handle a canoe in wind and waves. And don't go out any further than you can swim safely to shore -- considering the weather, the water temperature, how you're dressed, how old you are, and your physical condition.

You also need to know - and more importantly understand - the tides. If you are accessing the Atlantic from an inlet at slack tide the experience coming back in hours later may be a whole different beast.

And I’ll confess that I still don’t fully grasp the impact of different combinations of wind and tide in some places that I routinely paddle.

Launching from a benign beach may find you surfing breakers on the way back in a few hours later. My father used to surf ocean breakers in his Grumman, and while I think the Adventure boats are decent low-budget canoes for paddling flatwater in comfort (if heavy and awkward to cartop) I don’t think even he would have tried it with one. I can’t think of a worse canoe in the surf. Or to paddle on any fast moving water where a spill is likely.

The hinged seatbacks on the Adventure would be the first thing torn off in the surf, and the three seats with standoffs fully down to the floor would trap tons of water weight in breaking waves, even if the canoe remained (briefly) upright.

Any boat, canoe or kayak, swamped in the surf with a swimmer nearby is hazardous. If you got steamrolled into the sand by an Adventure 16 you would look like a human manta ray.

If your desire is to try paddling out and back along the near shore Atlantic coast the least expensive (and safer) solution would be to search Craigslist for a cheap used sit-on-top. There are inexpensive SOT’s made for just that; unsinkable, scupper-holed, re-boardable and not as likely to crush you (or someone else) if you swim during a surf landing.
 
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Does the kayak have sealed bulkheads? I know folks who use their kayak hatches for food (and sometimes water) critter protection, and who for that very reason do not drill a tiny air pressure vent hole in the bulkhead.

I occasionally carry excess/starter foods in soft containers or dry bags, but I eat through that first and hang it in camp; I wouldn’t want to dispute ownership with a bear that was grubbing under the decks of my Monarch.

A 30L or even 60L blue barrel will fit behind the seat in the Monarch, although the 60 leaves zero room for trim adjustment. The 30L allows for about a foot of fore or aft adjustment.

I use a couple of these squat (_) barrels in lieu of the 30L on no-portage trips.

http://s1285.photobucket.com/user/CooperMcCrea/media/January%20Shop%20Days/P1250589.jpg.html?sort=2&o=3

Those fit under the decks much better than a \_/ shaped screw-top bucket and allow for easier trim adjustment, especially on trips where I’m carrying all of my potable water and give that weight priority placement near the center of the hull.

The Monarch is pretty benign in most wind and wave conditions, but it is trim sensitive in following seas and the ability to shift gear weight without repacking the entire hull is helpful.


I 'll try and tie in an answer to your suggestions while trying to stay pertinent to the OP. I will be using a 30 liter barrel and also two gamma lidded buckets. The latter do fit partly under the decking but of course in the stern the one there won't be able to go far back. The owner of the Greenland kayak will have the stove fuel pots etc..little things But the tent does fit in the back. Sleeping bags are problematical even though we use compression sacks. The forward 8 inch hatch is not sleeping bag friendly. I think I may be able to coax a bear canister into the rear hatch of the kayak.

The 30 liter barrel and the bucket will both be in back of me.. thanks for the reminder of maybe needing to adjust trim on the fly.. and thinking at the last minute how I might do that. I do know that I do not like Lake Superior in following seas and would make for the mainland. The waves get way over my head.

When you are ocean roaming its imperative that you be able to secure your gear. We are doing a kind of cage to contain gear so it does not get loose on its own. It no doubt would make reentry and emptying harder..We do need to stuff the ends with drybags with clothing and air.. I hope I have enough drybags.

To the OP thinking of the worst that could happen and how you will get out alive is essential. How can you secure essentials to the Adventure 16? How will you remount? Remember that on the seas you must have solid reentry skills. If you take your initial journey with others, dump intentionally. It is valuable practice.

Mike I have had ruddered boats before and don't really care for them. I agree rolling them over on land is an invitation to break the rudder. I plan to find a piece of driftwood to roll under the upside down hull to keep the rudder off rocks and sand. Lake Superior always has lots of driftwood. Whether I can find a piece that weighs less than a ton remains to be seen.
 
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Mike I have had ruddered boats before and don't really care for them. I agree rolling them over on land is an invitation to break the rudder. I plan to find a piece of driftwood to roll under the upside down hull to keep the rudder off rocks and sand. Lake Superior always has lots of driftwood. Whether I can find a piece that weighs less than a ton remains to be seen.

I am a big fan of ruddered hulls, especially when using any kind of sail rig.

You may have already discovered this, but one anomaly with the Monarch rudder is the position when retracted. Instead of flipping up 270 degrees to rest on the rear deck like a Feathercraft or other rudder the OEM one on the Monarch flips up closer 90 degrees, so that it sticks out nearly horizontal behind the stern.

If paddling in short steep seas every wave will smacks the rudder if retracted, especially with a heavily loaded boat on a broad reach. You can feel each passing wave via the foot pedals long before it passes the cockpit.

I’ve thought about replacing the rudder on the Monarch, but the simplicity of field repairs with that design has dissuaded me.
 
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Aside from being hard on the rudder I forsee no problems. I have a different system. Fixed footpegs ( ala Harmony) that adjust along a track, The foot pegs that are attached to the rudder are separate.
 
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