Back rests/Back bands?

[Alan Gage]

I'm building a little 12' solo for next year's nature center raffle. It will have a low seat and I'm expecting many people will want to double blade it and, coming from kayaks, will expect some sort of back rest. Never used one or even seen one up close. Recommendations?

Alan

 

[Guest]

Surf to Summit Performance Pro.

(Day 8 in Cooterville)

 

[Alan Gage]

Surf to Summit Performance Pro.

I don't find a Performance Pro, only a Performance (sans 'pro'): https://www.surftosummit.com/perfor...ath=283_271&osCsid=413ghnh8kg9o812la78ktrqos0

Unless I go the their seats where the Pro model seems to include both the back band and a seat of sorts: https://www.surftosummit.com/back-p...ath=283_208&osCsid=413ghnh8kg9o812la78ktrqos0

Also not finding much on install instructions. Some look like they have 4 straps for attachment points (front and rear I presume) and some look like they only have two straps. I'm assuming I could use a model with only two front attachment points since there will be a thwart right behind the seat for support?

(Day 8 in Cooterville)

Sounds like fun. Have a beer (or three) for me.

Alan

 

[dave0]

Alan, I'm in the midst of putting the back band back in the Rob Roy. I had to do a couple of different things but will document what I've done to give you some ideas and send them to you. My back rest is a Voyager. Came with the boat so not sure who makes it. If you have wood gunwales you can easily attach to them. Just a couple more holes and bolts.

dougd

 

[yellowcanoe]

The need for a backband depends on the shape of the seat bottom
In my RapidFire I have two seats. The low is shaped like a kayak seat and is about two inches off the floor in front and an inch in back
Kayak seats are typically shaped this way to allow locking in of thighs against thigh braces
The other seat is much higher off the floor. Four inches in the rear and three in the front
In the first seat your weight is thrown back and a backband, which I have, is essential
The second seat drops over the first. The backband does not even touch my back and is totally irrelevant
If you cant your seat with front edge lower I bet you will not even need a backband
I paddle my Monarch with a slightly canted forward seat for hours. I do not have a backband and don't miss it with my weight thrown just a little forward
I'm in the minimalist school. Why add stuff you don't have to

 

[Jim Dodd]

I have a padded seat with a backrest, from Canoe sports outfitters, in Indianola. May have used it on the Lizard last time. Not the best solution.

I'd try and adapt a back rest from a kayak, and fasten to the inwhale.


Mac McCarthy from feather canoes, has plans in his book, for a thwart that rotates, and has slats on it. I've never built one.

I just used a thwart with one of those old square flotation cushions, tucked between my back and the thwart. Not up town but it worked.

 

[Jim Dodd]

Maybe a Crazy chair velcroed to the thwart ?

 

[makevx73]

Scroll down thru this website to the "Fox", for something that would look pretty good in a stripper.

 

[Alan Gage]

The need for a backband depends on the shape of the seat bottom
In my RapidFire I have two seats. The low is shaped like a kayak seat and is about two inches off the floor in front and an inch in back
Kayak seats are typically shaped this way to allow locking in of thighs against thigh braces
The other seat is much higher off the floor. Four inches in the rear and three in the front
In the first seat your weight is thrown back and a backband, which I have, is essential
The second seat drops over the first. The backband does not even touch my back and is totally irrelevant
If you cant your seat with front edge lower I bet you will not even need a backband
I paddle my Monarch with a slightly canted forward seat for hours. I do not have a backband and don't miss it with my weight thrown just a little forward
I'm in the minimalist school. Why add stuff you don't have to

Interesting about the kayak/floor mounted seats being higher in the front. I can see where it would make sense from a functional standpoint and how the need for a backband would increase. At this point I'm unsure how high the seat will be. I'll be test paddling it before the seat is installed to get an idea of stability at different heights. Would be nice to get some not so accomplished paddlers to try it out and see how it feels to them as well since that's likely who will win it at the raffle. I'm hoping for enough stability to mount it 3-4 inches off the floor to make single blading a little less awkward. We'll see.

I don't know that a back band will really be necessary but I think, coming from rec kayaks, that many people will want one. And if they don't want it it would be nice to have one that attaches with only a couple pad eyes and can be easily removed. I don't have any desire to built a nice looking one from wood; it's just not a project I could get motivated about since it's not something that trips my trigger.

Alan

 

[Iskweo]

Alan, I use a padded seat with a folding backrest. It helps with my unsupported back on longer paddles. You can probably see pics of it on the Marshall Lake trip reports. Not everyones cup of tea but I like it. It goes on the canoe mounted seat with velcro straps underneath.

Christy

 

[latremorej]

Hmmm, a 12' solo. Kinda like a nessmuk style pack canoe? Usually to get enough stability for a novice they will have to be sitting on the bottom of the canoe. With that in mind, I used a SOT kayak seat with pretty good success. The seat pad and back band/support all together in one package.

 

[Jim Dodd]

Scroll down thru this website to the "Fox", for something that would look pretty good in a stripper.

Very prolific builder ! Great site just to nose around
Thanks !

Jim

 

[snubber]

I have a Slipstream pack canoe that came with the Surf to Summit KOF 301 seat with backrest. I find it much more comfortable than I had anticipated. The back leans against the thwart as you mention. The seat is atop 1 inch foam on the hull. I don't use any straps for support but simply tie the backrest to the thwart to keep it from folding down when getting in. I have never tried a backband so cannot compare the two. Additionally, I have tried omitting the seat with backrest and just leaning against the thwart......agony!

 

[yellowcanoe]

For the traditional look eliminate hanging a seat entirely
Wee Lassies are often outfitted with a drop in Cane chair available Harmony. They run about a hundred bucks and look nice. Like a cane beach chair.
I think with other seating options more modern you might not get as much raffle sales

 

[Alan Gage]

Thanks for all the great ideas. Hard to know what to do about the seat; trying to figure out what will look best and be most functional. I imagine it will be too low for hanging so will probably glue some blocks to the hull for attachment. A simple contoured wood seat would look nice and probably be one of the easier options.

I think a small carbon fiber bucket would be most comfortable, especially for down low seating, and would also look quite sharp (there's already a light/dark contrast thing going on with dark cedar, walnut, and ash).

The drop-in seat from Harmony would sure be an easy button and looks good. I personally wouldn't like it but I have to try and remind myself it's not going to be my boat. I imagine most people would think it's great. I worry about it not being fastened to the hull (shifting unexpectedly in rough water) but it would be easy enough to add a base it could be quickly attached to.

As for hull stability I kept it relatively wide (29") in comparison to many pack canoes in hopes it will be more beginner friendly with a slightly higher seat. I'm anxious to paddle the boat to see how it performs. The water is relatively high this spring making some sloughs accessible that have been dry for the past few years. Would be a great hull for that sort of thing. I think there will be quite a bit of test paddling before a seat is permanently installed.

Alan

 

[Jim Dodd]

I have 5/4 Ash, snowshoe cord, and a pattern waiting for you, I could bring up !
Easilly adapted to sit in the bottom.

It's what son Ben is going with in his Iowa Traveler. It will set on blocks on the bottom.

 

[Alan Gage]

I have 5/4 Ash, snowshoe cord, and a pattern waiting for you, I could bring up !
Easilly adapted to sit in the bottom.

It's what son Ben is going with in his Iowa Traveler. It will set on blocks on the bottom.

The ash I've got. Might take you up on the pattern and cord though. We'll see.

Thanks,

Alan

 

[Alan Gage]

How soon will Ben's Traveler be hitting the water? Will be interested to see how the seat feels on the floor.

Alan

 

[Jim Dodd]

How soon will Ben's Traveler be hitting the water? Will be interested to see how the seat feels on the floor.

Alan

I need to pressure him a little more !!! Needs to sand and glass the interior, trim, and varnish.

I have plenty of cord !

 

[Guest]

I don't find a Performance Pro, only a Performance (sans 'pro'): https://www.surftosummit.com/perfor...ath=283_271&osCsid=413ghnh8kg9o812la78ktrqos0

Also not finding much on install instructions. Some look like they have 4 straps for attachment points (front and rear I presume) and some look like they only have two straps. I'm assuming I could use a model with only two front attachment points since there will be a thwart right behind the seat for support?


Sounds like fun. Have a beer (or three) for me.

Alan, my bad, no “pro” just Performance model. I believe that is the same back band Placid installs on the RapidFire.

The Performance (and I think most other models) have four straps, although some of the Surf to Summit do not show that clearly. All four straps have ladder locks and brass swivel snaps. Two of the straps are positioned forward and need to be attached via a pad eye (using the swivel snap) or via a strap grommet.

https://www.google.com/search?q=str...=iHxEV4T6JoTGmQG78J6QDg#imgrc=NjkuArme3eB9RM:

The two rear strap can be attached likewise or can simply be passed around a rear thwart and back through the ladder locks.

The four straps keep the back band taut and non droopy and positioned exactly where most comfortable.

Sounds like fun. Have a beer (or three) for me.

I took that sage advice and availed myself of Cooterville’s lounge facilities.



After three I was still confident that I could find NC Compliant restroom facilities