Why am I the only one in a Canoe?

Punkinhead said:

It's not about price with them. They could all afford a high end canoe, they just don't want one. Not one of those friends has asked to try one of my canoes. They're content in their plastic tubs.

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I see a lot of this too. To be fair, we all have our priorities that we're willing to spend money on, and those less important. Those in that group who I know well put a higher priority on really nice homes (which is a puzzlement to me) and new cars (which I fully understand), among other things. I'm sure that they see my collection of boats, bikes, and skis, and where I live and what I drive; and question my sanity, or at least my judgement.

A data point in favor of perceived accessibility: Yesterday, I overheard part of a conversation between a couple of retirement-age ladies. Apparently, kayaks are preferred because they don't want to deal with having to get their shoulders outboard to handle a single-blade.

sailsman63 said:

A data point in favor of perceived accessibility: Yesterday, I overheard part of a conversation between a couple of retirement-age ladies. Apparently, kayaks are preferred because they don't want to deal with having to get their shoulders outboard to handle a single-blade.

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Everyone here locally knows you can go places in a kayak that you can't go in a canoe because kayaks draft less.

Alan

sailsman63 said:

A data point in favor of perceived accessibility: Yesterday, I overheard part of a conversation between a couple of retirement-age ladies. Apparently, kayaks are preferred because they don't want to deal with having to get their shoulders outboard to handle a single-blade.

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On the flip side, a lot of my older friends have a lot of trouble getting in and out of a sit-in kayak due to aging knees and hips. They'd be better off in a sit on top or a canoe.

sailsman63 said:

A data point in favor of perceived accessibility: Yesterday, I overheard part of a conversation between a couple of retirement-age ladies. Apparently, kayaks are preferred because they don't want to deal with having to get their shoulders outboard to handle a single-blade.

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Alan Gage said:

Everyone here locally knows you can go places in a kayak that you can't go in a canoe because kayaks draft less.

Alan

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Misperceptions abound.

Is there an analogy between single blading a canoe vs. double blading a kayak . . . and . . . driving a stick shift/manual clutch car vs. an automatic transmission car? It used to be said that maneuvering a stick and manual clutch was real "driving of" a car, while using an automatic was merely "riding in" a car. (James Bond always made manual shift "racing changes" in his Aston Martin.) Yet, stick shifts are dying or already dead.

Perhaps the novice to intermediate paddling market is approaching an even more extreme analogy: stick shift vehicles vs. autonomous vehicles.

This is an interesting discussion, and has been going on with increasing frequency, if not alarm, in the Freestyle canoe community, the WCHA, and many other clubs and organizations devoted to traditional canoe forms and paddling styles with which I am associated or familiar.

I think it boils down to the fact that most people don't want, and never have wanted, to really become proficient paddlers. Most people just want to get out on the water, soak up some sun, be with friends, and maybe drink some beers. By far the lowest threshold to do this in terms of price, availability, transport, storage, and skill level required is a kayak.

Most are happy to float more than they paddle. They aren't interested in learning any strokes or paddling efficiently. They aren't interested in multi-day wilderness trips. They're perfectly happy doing what they're doing. It's perfect for what they want to do.

To them we, who spend many thousands of dollars on boats and paddles, have to baby our boats, spend countless hours learning new techniques, intentionally paddle in inclement conditions to improve our skills, and buy trailers and expensive racks to transport and store our boats probably seem like crazy ones.

Alan

Alan Gage said:

...have to baby our boats...

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Steve in Idaho said:

Misperceptions abound.

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Indeed.

Personally, I don't mind having fewer people in the backcountry and the fact is that yaks are suited best to day paddling so backcountry access is more difficult.

Granted, that doesn't bode well for someone like Mem trying to keep routes open and keep the pressure on the logging companies to maintain riparian buffers along those routes but people seem to have 10 second attention spans, seek instant gratification with as little input as possible and be unable to disconnect from society these days.

Maybe we can't blame them for wanting maximum ROI and it's just the old curmudgeon in me that bristles at the sight of kayaks, kayak paddles and stomp-n-steer transmissions in cars (and now even in large trucks).

There may be hope for me though... I DO tip on the rare trip to my local Hungry Heifer.

For YEARS I NEVER saw another canoe being paddled. I was on the Puget Sound paddling my canoe and would be asked about it. Paddling the Colorado River outside of Moab in a WW canoe and ANOTHER WW canoe came up. We had the greatest time talking. Finally I asked him.

"You are originally from the Northeast aren't you?"
"Maine, how did you know?"
"Rarely have I ever met anyone from the West w/ a ww canoe and those were ALWAYS from back East or MN, WI, MI. "

Know that you are not alone....the road less travelled and all of that.

Steve in Idaho said:

I see a lot of this too. To be fair, we all have our priorities that we're willing to spend money on, and those less important. Those in that group who I know well put a higher priority on really nice homes (which is a puzzlement to me) and new cars (which I fully understand), among other things. I'm sure that they see my collection of boats, bikes, and skis, and where I live and what I drive; and question my sanity, or at least my judgement.

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Your post reminded me of the real estate commercial that’s out now where the actress states that most of life’s best memories are made in the home. I thought about that for a minute and reached a conclusion opposite of her assertion. Most of my best memories were made outside a house.

Of all the people I know that have kayaks, none of them mentioned ease of paddling as a reason why they have them. Their paddle is an afterthought. They like short, wide boats they sit on top of. They don’t really care about efficient paddling. As mentioned above, they just want to float around.

Punkinhead said:

On the flip side, a lot of my older friends have a lot of trouble getting in and out of a sit-in kayak due to aging knees and hips. They'd be better off in a sit on top or a canoe.

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Agreed. The local nature center rents way more kayaks than canoes. When I help with boat rentals, we have to help with lowering some people into kayaks and almost all adults need help getting out. We promote the sit-on-top kayaks to a lot of adults.

Alan Gage said:

I think it boils down to the fact that most people don't want, and never have wanted, to really become proficient paddlers

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Mediocrity is kind of popular in our culture. I'm not immune.

Alan Gage said:

To them we, who spend many thousands of dollars on boats and paddles, have to baby our boats, spend countless hours learning new techniques, intentionally paddle in inclement conditions to improve our skills, and buy trailers and expensive racks to transport and store our boats probably seem like crazy ones.

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A point which I am willing to concede.

Gamma1214 said:

Granted, that doesn't bode well for someone like Mem trying to keep routes open and keep the pressure on the logging companies to maintain riparian buffers along those routes

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This brings up a whole other subject. I've mentioned this here before. I'm torn between advocating preserving the status quo on some stretches of river, and instead promoting and supporting the development of more access. For instance, the Boise river below The City still has a mostly wild personality, but adjacent land owners (mostly farmers) routinely abuse the land/river interface - or the river directly. There's a proposal to eventually develop a valley-wide greenbelt trail along the Boise all the way to the Snake River. I believe doing that would put an end to the abuse coming from the agriculture industry which has devastated the river ecosystem, but I loathe the idea of making it all like the City Stretch. I already mourn the loss of much of the heron rookery that resulted from a nearby new bridge construction. Another one downstream would be threatened with more access and human activity. OTOH, I believe more eyes on the river would bring pressure to end some destructive practices, and maybe make the river more livable.

I think if I put my selfish desires up on the high shelf, promoting more recreational use of the river (preferably in canoes) is better for the big picture, but what if I'm wrong about that? Not that I have significant power over it, but I'd hate to find out I was on the wrong side.

Think I'll just stick to paddling and poling my canoes.

There are a couple of logging companies in this area that will take nice trees within sight of property lines regardless of which side they are supposed to be cutting. I guess the theory is that the fines they pay when they get caught are less than the value of the trees they illegally harvest. (If a tree falls in the forest and nobody sees the [fresh] stump, was it ever really there?)

I'd be willing to bet that more eyes on the river would be beneficial and that doesn't always mean developed access. Conemaugh Valley Conservancy is a non-profit near me that has done wonders for the river here and much of it was due to organizing a sojourn where they run 4 different sections of the river the 1st weekend of June.

Now if they can just switch people from plastic yaks to open boats and single sticks (there are usually 40 yaks to every canoe), they might have something. (probably a feeble attempt to mitigate thread drift but what can ya do, right?)

Alan Gage said:

Most are happy to float more than they paddle. They aren't interested in learning any strokes or paddling efficiently. They aren't interested in multi-day wilderness trips. They're perfectly happy doing what they're doing. It's perfect for what they want to do.

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I was reminded of that yesterday. I'd just returned from a six mile "workout" in my fast cruiser and there was a couple launching short rec kayaks at the take out. They were watching me as I lifted the carbon solo onto my shoulder and said "That must be pretty light. What's it weigh?"

I told them it weighs 25 lbs. He replied, "Must be nice." And I said that it doesn't weigh much but you have to pay attention when you're on the water, it's not as stable as your boats. To which he replied "Well, you have to know your limits."

I just left it with "Enjoy your time on the water," but maybe should have mentioned that there are solo canoes that are about as stable as kayaks and easier to get in to and out of. And usually lighter. Missed my chance.

I just had a text conversation with a friend about this. He sent me FB listing for a junk OT Saranac 146 poly canoe with plastic pedestal seats, hogged bottom and sun damage. It was listed for $700.

He asked if I thought it was a good purchase for his young family. I said that he would probably not be happy with the boat, pointed out the issues, and then offered him my OT Tripper for free. I would even install seats for the whole brood.

He replied that he was now thinking about kayaks. We had a brief discussion about the various issues and then he admitted that his wife had already determined that their course of action was to get two double kayaks and a single, two to be transported on top of their minivan, and one inside. He asked me for my recommendations on what brand/models to look at, and I bowed out with another plug for open boats.

I asked him why they didnt want to try a canoe, and he hasn't responded.

Tryin' said:

their course of action was to get two double kayaks and a single, two to be transported on top of their minivan, and one inside.

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I feel sorry for whoever gets stuck in that pumpkin seed.