Winter time, boredom and the used canoe market

[sonofsquink]

As winter sets in and dreams of next season become overwhelming, I’ve decided to waste my time scouring craigslist and marketplace for a new canoe. I currently have two OT Packs, which I love, but think it’s time to add something bigger to the fleet.

I guess a few notes on specifics: My canoeing is done almost exclusively in the driftless region, so small creeks, shallow rivers and a lot of scraping on rocks. I typically bring my dog, a 90lbs German Shepard mix, and a full-sized, fully loaded cooler. I am an adequate woodworker, so removing, relocating and rebuilding seats isn’t an issue. Once a year, my buddies and I will take a week-long trip down a river. I have a lot of experience backpacking, so all of my gear fits in a blue barrel, which is then slid into an old ALICE pack for portages (I recently discovered that the ALICE pack/blue barrel combo would work, wish I had thought of that before several failed diy sewing experiments for a barrel pack). I’d like something that could be used to tandem with my wife on rare occasions, but this would primarily be my solo boat for bigger trips. After our last expedition where we encountered some unexplainable things at one of our camps, we decided my dog is coming along next time and there’s no way I could do that in the Pack. I am about 6’1” 180lbs.

I’m a huge fan of royalex and the Packs in general, but have never tried anything other than aluminum. I am a little leary of how fiberglass would handle some of the abrasion that these rivers are rife with. Speed isn’t really an issue, as our trips are very leisurely and usually only cover about 10-12 miles a day.

As for price, I’d really like to stick under $600, but if a worthwhile investment pops up, I’d pay a little more. I recently missed out on an Old Town Camper for $300 and have been kicking myself ever since.

So far, my used options are: A Mad River Canoe, no model given, but 16.5 feet and fiberglass, although with the wear, it certainly looks like royalex and needs extensive repairs on the bottom ($270, 5h 45m round trip), an unmarked, duck-hunting-painted 2012 canoe. Looks to be Wenonah and probably fiberglass ($400, 6h), Old Town Tripper, royalex, needs repairs to skid plates ($120, 8h), Wenonah Sundowner 18”, ($500, 3h), OT Pathfinder, ($200, 8h), Mad River Explorer, royalex, 16foot, wood gunnels in bad shape ($400, 6hr) and a Wenonah Solo Plus, royalex ($350, 6hr).

Is there anything there that is worth the drive or should I keep my eyes out for something else? All I have is time right now.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

To paddle solo even with a big dog and gear, I don't think you need a 17' or 18' canoe, which would rule out the Sundowner and OT Tripper for me. A 16 footer or capacious 15 footer would do. I like the 16' Mad River Royalex Explorer, but am biased because that was my first canoe. If you have woodworking skills, putting on new gunwales on it wouldn't be difficult or very expensive. I believe the OT Pathfinder is basically the same canoe as the 15' Camper.

I can't really offer much more because I can't see or inspect the canoes, which is where the tale of the tape will be. I'd ask for lots of pictures before I drove 6 to 8 hours.

 

[Benson Gray]

I believe the OT Pathfinder is basically the same canoe as the 15' Camper.

The page below compares the Pack, Pathfinder, and Camper from the 2003 catalog. The basic designs are similar but the dimensions are substantially different. My general advice in situations like this is to try a canoe before you buy it. Small boats are very personal so what feels right to me may feel very wrong to you. Bart Hauthaway used to say that you don't get in and out of one, you wear it. Good luck,

Benson

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

I believe the OT Pathfinder is basically the same canoe as the 15' Camper.

The page below compares the Pack, Pathfinder, and Camper from the 2003 catalog.

Benson, that catalog shows only a 16' Camper. Wasn't there also a 14-10 Camper, the same length and perhaps the same canoe as the 14-10 Pathfinder, perhaps in a different year? What I am remembering, perhaps wrongly, is that there was a 16' and a 15" (14-10) Camper, and that shorter Camper was later renamed the Pathfinder.

 

[Benson Gray]

Wasn't there also a 14-10 Camper, the same length and perhaps the same canoe as the 14-10 Pathfinder, perhaps in a different year?

The 1980 catalog introduced the 14 foot, 10 inch long Pathfinder and it was last listed in 2004. The 'new' Camper 15 model was introduced in the 2006 catalog with the same dimensions as the old Pathfinder. The Camper 15 and 16 models were last listed in the 2014 catalog. Let me know if this doesn't answer your question.

Benson

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Okay, so I'm remembering correctly except in the wrong nominal direction. The Pathfinder was later renamed the Camper 15.

What we don't know is whether @sonofsquink "missed out" on a Camper 16 or a Camper 15.

 

[MrPoling]

If all you do is paddle rivers, and you don't paddle very far, then Royalex might be the way to go. The Tripper would be a good choice, especially if it is the 16 ft. If that's what's available I'd take it. The Explorer would be a great choice if it wasn't so far away.

If you fondly remember aluminum canoes you might be disappointed with how floppy Royalex can be. I use my fiberglass Explorer more than my other tandems, including in scrappy rivers. The nice fiberglass canoe in that list, the Sundowner, might be too big for little rivers. But if I wanted an economical boat for scraping down rivers I would consider fiberglass too.

Also, I can't see your location, but that list seems pretty meager. This time of year there aren't many canoes on sale, but as we get into March you'll have a lot better choices.

 

[Bob B.]

sonofsquink,​

I paddle both up and down river ( Wisconsin River ) with my dog. For reference, I am 6'2" and about 215 - my dog is 70 pounds. I have done a December trip from the Mazo area to the HWY 23 bridge - days of easy paddling - hot tenting over night. In fact, I paddle everywhere with my dog ( not as large as yours) in 15 to 16 foot canoes. I have bigger, but not really necessary even on longer trips. For day trips 15 - 16 foot canoe is fine. I am familiar with the solo plus. That would be enough boat for you both, especially on day trips. I am not a huge fan of Wenonah boats - I like less go straight more rocker canoes - so I do not own one. that said, they are very good boats and the solo plus is pretty stable when trimmed properly, even with a large dog.

The pathfinder may well be a good boat for you as well, if you are going to portage any amount, jsut know some of those older royalex boats can go 70 plus pounds. With a tump for the portage, I find this pretty manageable, but with portage pads and yoke only - portaging can be not so fun. For day trips when the port if from the car in a parking lot to the river a short distance away, it is much less of an issue.

The old town Camper is the SUV of the canoe world and has been used for everything, day trips, skinny water, long wilderness trips .... everything. They are a little wide a good J stroke is fine to paddle these canoes, and very stable with a dog. I see lots of them on the river used in rental fleets. One thing to consider is Royalex is slippery to a dog and they do not always like being in a boat made of it. Use a pad for comfort, to keep them out of a wet bilge and slippery bottom - the dog is much happier ... and more still.

Good luck. Paddling with dogs is AWESOME!

 

[Black_Fly]

As winter sets in and dreams of next season become overwhelming, I’ve decided to waste my time scouring craigslist and marketplace for a new canoe. I currently have two OT Packs, which I love, but think it’s time to add something bigger to the fleet.

I guess a few notes on specifics: My canoeing is done almost exclusively in the driftless region, so small creeks, shallow rivers and a lot of scraping on rocks. I typically bring my dog, a 90lbs German Shepard mix, and a full-sized, fully loaded cooler. I am an adequate woodworker, so removing, relocating and rebuilding seats isn’t an issue. Once a year, my buddies and I will take a week-long trip down a river. I have a lot of experience backpacking, so all of my gear fits in a blue barrel, which is then slid into an old ALICE pack for portages (I recently discovered that the ALICE pack/blue barrel combo would work, wish I had thought of that before several failed diy sewing experiments for a barrel pack). I’d like something that could be used to tandem with my wife on rare occasions, but this would primarily be my solo boat for bigger trips. After our last expedition where we encountered some unexplainable things at one of our camps, we decided my dog is coming along next time and there’s no way I could do that in the Pack. I am about 6’1” 180lbs.

I’m a huge fan of royalex and the Packs in general, but have never tried anything other than aluminum. I am a little leary of how fiberglass would handle some of the abrasion that these rivers are rife with. Speed isn’t really an issue, as our trips are very leisurely and usually only cover about 10-12 miles a day.

As for price, I’d really like to stick under $600, but if a worthwhile investment pops up, I’d pay a little more. I recently missed out on an Old Town Camper for $300 and have been kicking myself ever since.

So far, my used options are: A Mad River Canoe, no model given, but 16.5 feet and fiberglass, although with the wear, it certainly looks like royalex and needs extensive repairs on the bottom ($270, 5h 45m round trip), an unmarked, duck-hunting-painted 2012 canoe. Looks to be Wenonah and probably fiberglass ($400, 6h), Old Town Tripper, royalex, needs repairs to skid plates ($120, 8h), Wenonah Sundowner 18”, ($500, 3h), OT Pathfinder, ($200, 8h), Mad River Explorer, royalex, 16foot, wood gunnels in bad shape ($400, 6hr) and a Wenonah Solo Plus, royalex ($350, 6hr).

Is there anything there that is worth the drive or should I keep my eyes out for something else? All I have is time right now.

If you haven’t looked, check out the North American Canoe Trader group on FACEBOOK. Warning, you can waste hours scrolling through the listings. No plastic hulls, metal frames or kayaks are allowed, only layups.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/midwestcanoe