One All-Around Canoe for Maine Tripping

[Coop]

I have been canoeing in Maine since around 1985 in the days when we flew with canoes attached to the float planes. I met Milford Kidney at Lock Dam on what might have been his last year as dam keeper. I have done the St. Croix, East Branch Penobscot, Upper West Branch Penobscot and the Allagash half a dozen times. I plan to retire in Maine soon. I have always rented canoes from outfitters. I didn't even know what I was renting back in the '80's, but likely Old Town Trippers in Royalex. Nowadays, the outfitters are renting Old Town Discovery 169's which are lead sleds at about 91 lbs.. I thought I was just getting old when I picked up a Discovery 169. I never even paid attention to canoe materials or weights or designs until now.

My most recent trip was on the Allagash this past September. The water was CRAZY high (like 8,000 cf/s) the day we started. Anyway, I packed WAY too much heavy gear and after I got home I started looking into lighter gear from everything from sleeping bags and tents to canoes and paddles.

I am trying to decide what to buy for my first canoe. I want it to be a jack of all trades. I would like to do a bit more technical whitewater, like on other rivers in Maine such as the Machias. Multi night trips with up to Class I-III stuff. I have pretty much decided that T-Formex is the only material for me on whitewater. (I bounce off a lot of rocks.) I find the Royalex story very odd. I just can't figure out why a company would just suddenly stop making such a successful product like that. I know, corporate profits. Probably the same reason Old Town refuses to make anything other than polyethylene now. The sell plenty of plastic boats, and the average canoeist doesn't know the difference. Heck, i didn't know the difference until I started educating myself the last several weeks.

Anyway, I really respect what the Esquif Company did by developing T-Formex and they will likely earn my business. I am leaning heavily toward a Prospecteur Sport. I prefer Class I to III whitewater river trip to lakes. Canoeing up Eagle or Chamberlain Lake against the wind sucks no matter what you are driving, so I won't risk "spoiling" a composite boat on the rocks, just to make lake paddling easier. If I end up doing a lot of flatwater, I can always pick up a composite boat from Wenonah. But I just don't see anything that competes with a Prospecteur 16 Prospecteur 16 Sport for what I want to do. I have seen some decent used Royalex Old Towns and Mad Rivrers for sale. But I think I will shell out the extra bucks for a new Esquif.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

At the end, the only market for Royalex was for a small part of the canoe market, itself a niche market, which made continued production for Spartech unprofitable. So, the product died. T-Formex seems to be a reasonable substitute.

I haven't paddled either, but both the Prospecteur 16 and Prospecteur Sport 16 would seem to meet your needs. They are very close in specs and both have significant rocker, but the Sport having .75 inch more, which makes me think the Sport may be a little better in rapids and a little worse on windy lakes. All canoes are difficult in wind, but I know from experience that highly rockered whitewater canoes can be near impossible.

I believe in buying a canoe type primarily designed for your primary usage if you can only have one. If you can have two, then get another primarily designed for your secondary usage.

 

[Coop]

At the end, the only market for Royalex was for a small part of the canoe market, itself a niche market, which made continued production for Spartech unprofitable. So, the product died. T-Formex seems to be a reasonable substitute.

From what I have read, the canoe market was virtually the only market for Royalex. However, it seems that it was a fairly significant portion of the canoe market. If Esquif can make a ABS/foam composite that is almost the same as Royalex, and make all its canoes out of it, and be profitable, then it seems odd that PolyOne couldn't be profitable on Royalex. Oh well, that's water under the bridge.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Who knows if T-Formex is profitable for Esquif. Wenonah seems to be the only other big company that has adopted it. Maybe it will disappear too.

 

[recped]

I'm assuming this is for solo use, generally for trips one week or less in duration.

I am leaning heavily toward a Prospecteur Sport

Not a bad way to lean! I have no personal experience, the specs are good for your use (it's a bit too wide for me), I like the bit of additional depth over the regular Prospecteur 15, the flare will help as well. The esquif's I have paddled, Vertige & Pocket Canyon tend to take on water right where a solo seat is located. Build quality for esquif is usually pretty good (maybe not absolute top quality).

I'm sure you will get a number of other suggestions, everybody has their favourite brands/boats (I've been tripping in Mohawk XL14's for the last few years.

I find the Royalex story very odd. I just can't figure out why a company would just suddenly stop making such a successful product like that. I know, corporate profits.

Royalex was never a (financially) successful product, if it ever was profitable it was way back in the original (1970's) days when Uniroyal introduced it. Spartech kept making it for many years before being taken over by Poly One, that was the end of Royalex, Poly One shut down the production facility.

In any event T-Formex is essentially the same product as Royalex, the manufacturing process is the same, the raw materials basically the same with maybe a few tweaks to the formulae. It works for esquif only because THEY can use them for their own boats, they had very little takers from other canoe manufacturers except Wenonah. I have no insider information but Quebec can be very tax friendly and help with financing to QC based companies. There is no doubt the start up costs for T-Formex were substantial, you need to sell a lot of boats to recoup.

 

[Coop]

I have no insider information but Quebec can be very tax friendly and help with financing to QC based companies. There is no doubt the start up costs for T-Formex were substantial, you need to sell a lot of boats to recoup.

Good point about gov't funding of Quebec based companies. Esquif has been making almost solely T-Formex canoes for several years now. Hopefully they are profitable and will keep making them.

Is there any better canoe material for a river tripping canoe with moderate whitewater than T-Formex?

 

[alsg]

The esquif's I have paddled, Vertige & Pocket Canyon tend to take on water right where a solo seat is located.

Different strokes for different folks! I own and have paddled the Vertige extensively the last year. I'm 5'10" and 214 lbs and have been paddling it nearly every weekend in Class II/II+ with an occasional III. Very dry boat in my experience. But I haven't paddled it with a load of gear. My take is the Vertige is a good down river boat. A little more manueverable than would be necessary on, say, the Allagash. Has good glide for its length (12'10"). But the OP might be better off with one of the longer Prospector models on the headwater lakes and slow moving sections of those North Maine Woods rivers like the Allagash.

T-Formex is indistringuishable to me from Royalex.

 

[GeoBoy]

Take a look at a Northstar canoe in IXP layup or a Souris River canoe in their whitewater layup.

 

[ppine]

The OT 169 is really a kind of baby Tripper. Both are good boats for rivers. Rocker is important and some depth. We don't portage hardly at all out West and line the boats sometimes. Heavy canoes are not that much of a problem. I paddled a OT Guide 18 in wood and canvas for 30 years. When it was wet it weight about 92 pounds.

I like a lot of rocker in canoes for rivers and no keels. Depth is hard to find sometimes. Fourteen inches is good but 15 is even better. The OT was a big canoe but only 12 inches deep. Fiberglass and kevlar can take some rock hits and are easiest to repair.

 

[yellowcanoe]

If you want to paddle Maine rivers no matter what the water levels, RX and T Formex are the way to go. Yes I have lived in Maine for 25 years and have paddled the Allagash in a Kevlar boat but the water levels were quite high and a wrap not going to happen. If you can scrape Uncle Henrys regularly you might find a OT Tripper for sale. Those old RX boats last forever.. Better yet a OT Kennebec. Both manageable on lakes and they are very good poling boats. in old age we have gone to carbon fiber for lightness and just avoid rapids unless there is a lot of water over the rocks.

 

[recped]

Different strokes for different folks! I own and have paddled the Vertige extensively the last year. I'm 5'10" and 214 lbs and have been paddling it nearly every weekend in Class II/II+ with an occasional III. Very dry boat in my experience. But I haven't paddled it with a load of gear.

I was thinking Class III with big wave trains while fully loaded and mostly the Pocket Canyon as the Vertige is a bit on the small size.

 

[Keeled Over]

At the end, the only market for Royalex was for a small part of the canoe market, itself a niche market, which made continued production for Spartech unprofitable. So, the product died. T-Formex seems to be a reasonable substitute.

I haven't paddled either, but both the Prospecteur 16 and Prospecteur Sport 16 would seem to meet your needs. They are very close in specs and both have significant rocker, but the Sport having .75 inch more, which makes me think the Sport may be a little better in rapids and a little worse on windy lakes. All canoes are difficult in wind, but I know from experience that highly rockered whitewater canoes can be near impossible.

I believe in buying a canoe type primarily designed for your primary usage if you can only have one. If you can have two, then get another primarily designed for your secondary usage.

And then, with the third one, you don't have to worry about parking your car in the garage anymore......

 

[Paddlinhal]

When I go tripping in Maine, I leave the Royalex boats at home and take my MR Kevlar Explorer. High water, low water, whatever. The gel coat takes a beating, but Kevlar always gets a bad rap. It's tough. And easy to throw on your shoulders. But if I woke up one day without the 10 boats I have kicking around, I would probably choose the Esquif Prospecteur. My buddy has one and we've tandem paddled some Class III, and each soloed our own fully loaded boats down the Penobscot between Old Town and Brewer at high water (Class III+). We both got about the same amount of wet. So yeah, go for it.

 

[MrPoling]

Is there any better canoe material for a river tripping canoe with moderate whitewater than T-Formex?

Northstar's IXP and Nova Crafts Tuff Stuff are supposed to be as robust as T-formex but lighter and stiffer. If I was after a new do-it-all canoe I'd probably look at their boats.

I really favor stiffer hulls whenever practical, they just paddle better.

I'd like to hear more from people who have those boats and have used them in white water.

 

[ppine]

My brother found an old Wenonah Cascade. It is an old Royalex boat that is 15 inches deep. I think the length is 17 1/2 feet with lots of rocker. It is amazing that there are not more river tripping boats like that out there.