On-the-fly adjustable seat height?

[tketcham]

I'm looking for a way to make adjustments in seat height so I can raise the seat to kneel and use a straight shaft paddle or lower the seat and use a bent shaft paddle. And I'd like to be able to do this fairly easily while out on the water. Canoe is a solo tripper with wood gunwales and wood seat frame.

I did some searching here at canoetripping.com and there isn't much discussion of "on-the-fly" adjustable seats other than Wenonah's version and the one specific post on that seat isn't encouraging: https://www.canoetripping.net/threads/replacing-wenonah-adjustable-seat.128497/#post-151736

I found a few adjustable seats with a web search but other than Wenonah's, the examples really aren't adjustable while on the water. Any ideas or suggestions?

 

[yknpdlr]

In some canoe models, Bill Swift has an optional multi-level adjustable mount seat available. Check out his videos to see how it works. I recently purchased a Cruiser, which does not have that option, but the integrated sliding seat/footrest is available in a fixec higher than standard mount, which is what I ordered and I like very much for single blade canoe paddling, both bent and straight.

 

[JohnSand]

I haven't seen any. Maybe a simple seat hanging from cam straps?

 

[Johnny 5]

Delete

 

[M Clemens]

One of the comments in that old thread was mine, but I should clarify. I liked the concept of the Wenonah system, especially if one wanted to adjust 'on the fly'. I just did not agree on the height and angle they chose in the design. If I still had access to a milling machine, I might have re-engineered one to suit my requirements.

 

[PaddlingPika]

Maybe install the seat at a sitting height but high enough so that in kneeling feet would not get stuck, then use thick seat cushion(s) to raise the height to a comfortable kneeling height? The challenge would be to be able to keep the cushion in place on the go.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Maybe install the seat at a sitting height but high enough so that in kneeling feet would not get stuck, then use thick seat cushion(s) to raise the height to a comfortable kneeling height? The challenge would be to be able to keep the cushion in place on the go.

This is a possibility. Instead of a cushion, a piece of minicell foam could be used as a seat riser. And the foam seat riser could be made in a triangular profile so there is a slope or cant to the seat for more comfortable kneeling. The foam seat riser could be attached to the fixed wood seat by wrap-around strips of velcro. Without velcro, this solution could be changed on the fly; with velcro, it would take a minute to attach and detach.

Alternatively, if you have wooden drop blocks for your seat at a kneeling height, you can get longer drop bolts and wing nuts to lower the seat to a sitting height by inserting washers or wooden shims onto the bolts below the drop block. Of course, you can't really do this on the fly. It would take a few minutes to raise or lower.

My solution has always been to lower the seat as far as possible for kneeling comfort and foot extraction, because I kneel 95% of the time, and then live with that height (usually 8.5"-9.0") for sitting.

 

[tketcham]

Just for clarification, I want the ability to have separate height positions for kneeling and sitting because in this particular canoe I kneel and sit in relatively equal amounts. I sit using a bent shaft paddle to get to my favorite places to explore, like a swampy back bay or marsh or stream, and then kneel with a straight shaft paddle when I get there. The current seat position is a bit of a compromise for either - a bit low for my feet while kneeling and a bit high for stability in chop while sitting. So in that regard, adding a seat cushion for kneeling won't work.

yknpdlr
In some canoe models, Bill Swift has an optional multi-level adjustable mount seat available.

I looked at what Swift calls their "Multi Height Seat Pods" and I can see possibilities there if I mount brackets riveted or epoxied to the hull at each position. But I'd really prefer to have the brackets suspended from the inner gunwales so I don't have to modify the canoe too much.

JohnSand
I haven't seen any. Maybe a simple seat hanging from cam straps?

I can think of possibilities using straps but would prefer to have a solid bracket mount if possible.

Johnny 5
It should be relatively easy to construct seat drops with adjustable height positions.

What did you have in mind?

M Clemens
I liked the concept of the Wenonah system... If I still had access to a milling machine, I might have re-engineered one to suit my requirements.

Good to hear. That's kind of what I was thinking I could do. Have a local machine shop modify the brackets for me so there's another setting for the front of the seat. Biggest obstacle at this time is I can't find a set of Wenonah seat brackets in stock anywhere.

 

[Johnny 5]

Deleted

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

The current seat position is a bit of a compromise for either - a bit low for my feet while kneeling and a bit high for stability in chop while sitting. So in that regard, adding a seat cushion for kneeling won't work.

I don't understand why it wouldn't.

First, you lower the fixed wooden seat to your preferred sitting height with new (longer) drop blocks. Then you make a kneeling cushion from minicell foam to raise yourself up to your preferred kneeling height. If you don't want or need to lash or Velcro the cushion to the fixed seat, you could literally swap that cushion on and off the seat in a few seconds.

Putting the seat on different levels with pins, pegs or side-mounted pods would be slower and a lot more fiddly.

 

[billconner]

It would seem if the seat pivoted - tilted from level to sloped - from some distance in front of the seat, you could tilt it up to kneeling height - at a slight slope with room for feet under it - or drop back to low and level. It's a problem best solved in drawing, but guessing a pivot point 12 to 18" forward of the seat edge is in the ball park. Any number of simple pin or prop devices to hold it up in kneeling position and let it rest in sitting position.

 

[tketcham]

It would seem if the seat pivoted - tilted from level to sloped - from some distance in front of the seat, you could tilt it up to kneeling height - at a slight slope with room for feet under it - or drop back to low and level. It's a problem best solved in drawing, but guessing a pivot point 12 to 18" forward of the seat edge is in the ball park. Any number of simple pin or prop devices to hold it up in kneeling position and let it rest in sitting position.

That's an interesting idea, especially since the pivot provides a more solid attachment for the front of the seat than notches and would be less fiddly. I'll have to work up some pivot point/seat angle drawings to see how long the lever arm would need to be to have enough seat drop for sitting without excessive seat tilt for kneeling.

You could also construct seat drops out of aluminum plate similar to Wenonah height/angle adjustable seat drops but custom cut the sliding slots to the height and angle that you prefer. The aluminum seat drops would also be suspended from the gunnells.

That's what I was thinking would be relatively easy for someone to construct and easy for me to install. I'll have to price some aluminum plate and the cost of machine shop labor.

First, you lower the fixed wooden seat to your preferred sitting height with new (longer) drop blocks.

That's the problem, the sitting position would be too low to comfortably slide my feet under the seat. The current seat height is already a compromise for kneeling. The seat frame needs to be raised and lowered accordingly.

 

[Johnny 5]

Deleted

 

[M Clemens]

Where the heck is Mike McCrea ???? Perfect challenge project!

 

[Rubbaboo]

The Kruger style seat system works well.

 

[Alan Gage]

I gave this quite a bit of thought over the years but I was never able to come up with something that was simple, required no tools, no parts that could be lost, could be done quickly and safely while in the water, didn't add excessive weight, and fit within my DIY skill set.

I just kept going back to my pedestal seat, set at the proper sitting height, which was easy to kneel around. The low seat never bothered me for kneeling but I usually only do it for short periods of time.

It is easy to add a cushion to the seat in this scenario for extra seat height when kneeling. I've often sat on my PFD (shhh, don't tell anyone).

Alan

 

[billconner]

That's an interesting idea, especially since the pivot provides a more solid attachment for the front of the seat than notches and would be less fiddly.

I don't know how your seat is hung - if you said I missed it - but if there was a rail or bar hung from gunwales or riveted to canoe like my Trans, simply extend those forward (replace with longer ones) and then a parallel set just inside them with seat attached. A pair of bolts - on at tip of each rail so seat pivots up - and a hinged piece that folds flat for seat down and level, and hinges upright to raise seat.

I don't kneel - ever - but I thought a little seat slope was a desired thing - support your butt a little, higher than seat. I'm guessing pivot is maybe 12" forward of current seat front edge, and maybe it raises 1 1/2", and rear edge maybe 3".

 

[JCH_Ski]

It would seem if the seat pivoted - tilted from level to sloped - from some distance in front of the seat, you could tilt it up to kneeling height - at a slight slope with room for feet under it - or drop back to low and level. It's a problem best solved in drawing, but guessing a pivot point 12 to 18" forward of the seat edge is in the ball park. Any number of simple pin or prop devices to hold it up in kneeling position and let it rest in sitting position.

Off the top of my head, I believe this idea to be sheer genius!

 

[M Clemens]

My guru suggested this:

If only there was a way to mount it in a canoe.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

First, you lower the fixed wooden seat to your preferred sitting height

That's the problem, the sitting position would be too low to comfortably slide my feet under the seat. The current seat height is already a compromise for kneeling.

Yeah, sorry, I missed that reading late at night. What I suggested would work with a pedestal seat, as Alan Gage used, with which foot clearance is not an issue. The old Perception Saddle had a kneeling and sitting position. I believe Placid Boatworks offers a stackable pedestal seat, which allows a medium height seat to be stacked on top of a low seat and (I think) a high seat to be stacked on top of the medium seat.