A Raven for Christmas

[Roybrew]

Yet another thing to think about. If I'm not mistaken that was in the plans I got for it, unless I misunderstood it.

The outer stems run out past the inner stems about 10 inches.

That will be a problem with glassing.
Fiberglass cloth does not like hard corners. That is why bias cut strips are used to wrap the stems, the fibers cross diagonally so they don’t try to make a right angle turn.
A square edge proud of the hull will not take glass.
Jim

Memaquay built one last year.

Raven, part 2

Well, I decided I would build another Raven. Lots of rumination, was going to go with a 15 foot Pal, but I always really liked the Raven, so I will try to build this one a little lighter. Someone posted a video by Nick Schade, I believe, where he had cut his stem strips into 1/8 inch strips...

www.canoetripping.net

Of course he is way more of an expert than I am.

 

[Alan Gage]

I've never built with external stems so I might be wrong but my take has always been that while the external stem should be proud of the strips it should be shaped in a way that the transition is not noticeable by feel.

Alan

 

[Roybrew]

I've never built with external stems so I might be wrong but my take has always been that while the external stem should be proud of the strips it should be shaped in a way that the transition is not noticeable by feel.

Alan

Yes that is correct.
I've got some hand planing to do.
I appreciate all the advice from everyone.
Roy

 

[memaquay]

Just to be clear, because I'm not sure that we are, we are talking about the part of the stem that goes down the hull, not the part that is capping the strips. All that tapered stuff refers to the cap, where it is fairly narrow at the 90 degree turn, but widens out toward the deck of the canoe. Martin builds most of his boats with that tapered stem.

For the part of the stem after the turn, that extends for a station or two down the hull, I always plane them flush with the hull. If in doubt, shoot Martin Step a message. An external stem that is above the strips would have to be planed so that it becomes part of the natural lines of the hull, and doesn't look like it is standing proud. A stem that stands proud of the hull is going to act like a keel.
You can see sort of in this pic where I have planed the length of the stem flush with the hull, until it gets close to the turning point.

The Raven is a very different beast than the Osprey, with lots of rocker and way more volume. It would be more correct to call the Shearwater the big sister of the Osprey, but the Raven is more like the drunken uncle who gets in fights at the bar.

 

[Roybrew]

Just to be clear, because I'm not sure that we are, we are talking about the part of the stem that goes down the hull, not the part that is capping the strips. All that tapered stuff refers to the cap, where it is fairly narrow at the 90 degree turn, but widens out toward the deck of the canoe. Martin builds most of his boats with that tapered stem.

For the part of the stem after the turn, that extends for a station or two down the hull, I always plane them flush with the hull. If in doubt, shoot Martin Step a message. An external stem that is above the strips would have to be planed so that it becomes part of the natural lines of the hull, and doesn't look like it is standing proud. A stem that stands proud of the hull is going to act like a keel.
You can see sort of in this pic where I have planed the length of the stem flush with the hull, until it gets close to the turning point.

The Raven is a very different beast than the Osprey, with lots of rocker and way more volume. It would be more correct to call the Shearwater the big sister of the Osprey, but the Raven is more like the drunken uncle who gets in fights at the bar.

Thank you. Yes you cleared a lot up for me. I took a hard look at your build post and saw where the stem is flush with the hull along the keel to at the first station. To where I'm pointing.That makes sense. Working on it this morning. Thanks again.
Roy

 

[Roybrew]

I believe this will do it
Got the bow stem to go.

 

[Jim Dodd]

Not to throw a Monkey wrench into the mix !

But a sharper entry line, makes a big difference in speed.
Take a look at the stems on racing hulls, and you will see what I mean.

 

[Boatman53]

That looks much better for glassing. Well done. That before picture would never been able to glass into the corner.
Jim

 

[Roybrew]

Not to throw a Monkey wrench into the mix !

But a sharper entry line, makes a big difference in speed.
Take a look at the stems on racing hulls, and you will see what I mean.

Go ahead. Just throw one in there. Why not right. Trust me I don't paddle well enough to know any difference. Oh that reminds me of a time in my youth. When we moved to TN, back in the 70's, our property border a creek. It varied in width 6 to 12 feet wide, and up to 5 feet deep. I found an old bath tub and patched the drain hole with Bondo. Carved a paddle out of an old board, and paddled that tub all over the creek. It was very tipsy. Oh maybe that wasn't my finest moment, but it was start. I bet my parents wondered whose side of the family I took after.

Anyhow, I trimmed it down some and removed some of the bluntness from the stems. Thanks again y'all.
Roy

 

[Roybrew]

That looks much better for glassing. Well done. That before picture would never been able to glass into the corner.
Jim

Thanks for your input. I do overlook things.
Roy

 

[Roybrew]

Just finished glassing it.
It took 1/2 gallon of resin and a quart of hardener. It's raining and 60F degrees outside. I opened the windows for ventilation. I'm using RAKA 127 and 350. Not much of an odor, I feel ok, I think.

 

[memaquay]

Looks fantastic!

 

[Roybrew]

Finished the last fill coat 2am this morning. I feared the chine would be a bear to get the glass to cling to, but it turned good. I'm looking forward to seeing how it paddles.

 

[Gamma1214]

Looks awesome! I'm figuring on starting mine just after Christmas but I'm not brave enough to alter the strip orientation. (really DOES look cool IMO)

 

[Roybrew]

Looks awesome! I'm figuring on starting mine just after Christmas but I'm not brave enough to alter the strip orientation. (really DOES look cool IMO)

I don't think I should've tried that strip pattern, unless I would've had a form on the inside. No regrets, yet, but I haven't seen the inside.

Which one are you going to build?

 

[Gamma1214]

Yeah, I think you proved that that particular strip orientation isn't ideal (although... maybe just a few accent strips and go back to traditional...) but you did a nice job of recovery.

I'll be building a Raven. 2024 plans call for heading Memaquay's direction again with more rivers this time so I need more rocker than my Freedom and the Raven seems to suit Mem well enough that he keeps building them... Must be a reason, right? I'm not sure I need the volume of the Raven but we'll see.

I'm figuring on building mine stemless and using an Eastern Larch (aka Tamarack) and Sassafras combo. (I considered doing White Oak instead of Sassafras but I liked the darker wood better with the Larch)

Now flip that bad boy over & let's see the inside!

 

[Jim Dodd]

I'm figuring on building mine stemless

A very smart move ! The time and trouble you save is great !

 

[Jim Dodd]

Don't be too anxious to pull it off the forms. It take some time for the epoxy to cure, and have enough strength to hold things together. I always waited at least a week, before I pulled my hulls.
In fact in the Summer, when I could roll the hull out side to sand, The epoxy had at least two weeks to cure.
Sanding before you pull the hull, breaks up the sanding routine. Besides the forms holds the hull, to shape.

Looks great !

 

[Roybrew]

Yeah, I think you proved that that particular strip orientation isn't ideal (although... maybe just a few accent strips and go back to traditional...) but you did a nice job of recovery.

Eh yes, maybe I over stated that a little to much. Hey ya know what would be really cool? Is to have strips running around instead of a long the length something like these painted on stripes. That would be cool Ha.

Yes I think Memaquay's build put me on this path of the Raven also. The chine is very interesting.

Don't think I've ever seen Eastern Larch. The sassafras I've worked with was sort of a creamy off white color. I'd shy away from white oak. That's some heavy stuff and splinters real easy if the grains ain't right.

Oh yes the splintering of oak reminded me of a time. I was reworking an old tool chest that belonged to my wife's grandfather. It was made from left over woods from when he worked on houses. The top was made from oak flooring strips. So I was sanding on the top one day, and a sliver of oak slid into my thumb. Ooww ! That really hurt. It broke off under the skin, and I couldn't get anything on it to pull it out. I bandaged it up because I had to get to work. A few hours into my shifty thumb was killing me and I couldn't bend my thumb at the joint, so I went on into the nurses station for some help. The nurse thought I got a splinter from one of the oak pallets we used, so I left that stories as it was. She dug around and yanked it out. Oh Wow! That was a long piece of wood. She bandaged it up and gave me a tetniss shot.

Sorry long winded.

 

[Roybrew]

Sanding before you pull the hull, breaks up the sanding routine.

Yes I figured I would do a rough sanding this week. I did shave some of the drips and threads out. A bit tricky with this wide scraper
I have to pull up on it so I can watch and make sure I ain't gouging it anywhere.
I am anxious to check the weight of it at this stage. Spending some time rubbing the kitty's tummy right now. My wife's jealous.
Roy