Chestnut Chum questions

[walkabout]

New to this forum, actually new to any boat forum.

For some reason, covid, got me interested in building my first WRC stripper.
Well, covid is all but a memory but my desire is still there.

Being a traditionalist at heart, I am drawn to older designs. Seems the Chum is a well-regarded all-rounder.
I want this canoe to be versatile enough to tandem with my daughter and solo.


Now to the meat of my questions.

My research has created a good deal of confusion.
Chestunt catalog I have located has the Chum at 33" max beam width. Other references 32" in earlier offerings and 34" in latter offerings.

I located a set of plans that stated that the Max beam was 34.75". My plans showed up. I measured the largest form, it was 36" wide.
If I am thinking correctly that would be 36" plus the cedar strips, glass and epoxy would stretch it out to 36.75" or so for the finished beam width.
This puts the canoe in more of a Bob's Special, if not wider.

NOT what I had hoped for.

I called the designer and was told that they measured the beam after it was finished and that the boat would have some flex/spring after removed from the forms.
What? That does not sound correct to me. Seems the design intent would be to keep it the same as during and after construction.

What to do? Is it possible to reduce the plans to the dimensions I desire? I would think so, but how far is too far?
Will the bottom of the canoe provide me with similar performance characteristics as it was designed only being more narrow or will I end up with a boat that is just total trash?

That said, any suggestions on other plans that would be closer to the original designs of the Chum? Does anyone know where I can find accurate plans?
Have read that the Jack's Special is close to the original also, yet I have not been able to locate plans for that either.

BTW, I am looking for something in the 33"-34" wide.

Thank you all, I am sure I will have many questions in the near future.

 

[Boatman53]

I agree with you the forms should represent the finished canoe. The designer would have no idea what ‘flex’ each builder would get.
Other than that I can’t help you.
Jim

 

[Benson Gray]

Does anyone know where I can find accurate plans?

The Wooden Canoe Heritage Association's old list of available plans and dimensions at the link below includes both a Bob's and a Jack's if that helps. Good luck,

Benson

Wood Canoe Plans

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

New to this forum

Walkabout, welcome to site membership! Feel free to ask any questions and to post messages, photos and videos in our many forums. Please read Welcome to CanoeTripping and Site Rules! Also, please add your location to your profile, which will cause it to show under your avatar, as this is a geographic sport. We look forward to your participation in our canoe community.

Here is the Carrying Place's plans and kits page:

Canoe Building Schematics & Plans

I have no idea how close their Jack's Special is to the Chum, which actually changed in dimensions slightly over time if you study the old catalogs.

Our member here @Robin is a Chum guru who has owned and restored more than one Chum, and @Patrick Corry also has one he has restored. They could talk to you about dimensions. And there are other Chum owning members, too, who I can't recall off the top of my head. Hopefully, one or more will chime in.

 

[Thestripper]

Here is the Carrying Place's plans and kits page:

Canoe Building Schematics & Plans

Is it posible to get plans from Carrying place? I've been trying to contat them but without any reply so far. Are they still in business?

 

[Thestripper]

I called the designer and was told that they measured the beam after it was finished and that the boat would have some flex/spring after removed from the forms.
What? That does not sound correct to me. Seems the design intent would be to keep it the same as during and after construction.

Hi Walkabout. Welcome to t he forum.
This doesn't sound right at all. Have you checked any other measurements to see if they check out? If the midship depth is deeper than spec. then it is possible that your plans has a scaling error. Where did ou get your plans from?

 

[Robin]

I have a set of plans from Carrying Place for the Jack's Special which is supposed to be the same as a Chestnut Chum. I also have a Chestnut Chum.
I know Memaquay built one, but I know he sold it and I'm not sure if he ever even liked it. A wood canvas canoe and a wood stripper canoe might share the same measurements but they are not really the same. I paddled his and it felt different than my Chum, it seemed to float a little higher in the water iirc, but I liked it.
I'll do some digging tonight and see what I can find out.

Chum and Jacks Special

Jacks

 

[stripperguy]

Tweaking the hull after stripping and glassing??? No, no, just plain no. The hull in the water should be the same shape and dimensions as when on the forms.
As for narrowing the forms, it shouldn't be too much of an issue to remove an inch all around from the middle few forms, but that's not the issue.
You should find some plans that match your desired usage.
Personally, I think a 15 foot boat is too small for tandem use, but that's just my jaded opinion.
Maybe Memaquay will chime in, and offer up his profiles for the Chum that he built.

Beyond all that, you're making the right choice to build your own canoe, and a stripper is way easier than you might imagine.
Plenty of experienced guys here, and many plenty willing to virtually mentor you. Or actually assist in real life, depending on your location.
You'll find that we all have varying methods and preferences, just choose whichever of those that seem to fit you best.

Oh, and welcome to the forum...

 

[Boatman53]

Sorry I missed that it was your first post.
Welcome Walkabout, pull up a stump by the fire.
Jim

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Personally, I think a 15 foot boat is too small for tandem use

I generally agree unless the two people are light.

A wide and deep 15' canoe would be a little better. One of my canoes is a Nova Craft 15' Bob Special, which is 35" wide and 14" deep, and it wouldn't work well for two large adults. It would be okay tandem for a medium-large and small size person. I prefer the 15' length for narrow solo canoes, but 35"-36" is too wide for central seat soloing unless you want to paddle permanently heeled, Canadian style.

I think a 16' x 33"-34" tandem canoe would paddle better both tandem and solo than a 15' x 35"-36" canoe.

 

[memaquay]

I'm not sure if carrying place is still in business either, but their website still seems good. I'm not sure if the Jacks Special is an accurate recreation of the Chum, but it did look very similar to Robin's canoe. I did like it quite a lot, but someone made me an offer I couldn't refuse at a time when I needed cash.

As to putting two people in it.....it would be a hairy ride in my opinion. The Chum is fairly round, initial stability might seem a little twitchy, it wouldn't be something I would enjoy doing.

If the carrying place is still in business, check out their wilderness express, which is supposed to be lifted from the Pal. I built a few of them, they are a good large solo for lake travel and gentle rivers, and two people can function in it in an acceptable fashion.

 

[Patrick Corry]

I'll dip my toe into this discussion. I own both a mid-century Chestnut Chum and a one-off wood canvas canoe purportedly built by the previous owner as a Jack's Special. The dimensions of a given canoe in specifications and as-built, then used and perhaps stored poorly, can vary significantly. Even the Chestnut Canoe Co. changed the way they measured canoe width, i.e. including outwales or simply outsides of planking.

My Chum, measuring outside of planking (no outwales) is 31.5" and 12" deep, top of planking to level with gunwales. The Jack's Special measured similarly is 30" x 13". Both canoes are 15' long.

They are not remotely the same canoes! The Chum is clearly more flat bottomed (perhaps from poor storage) while the Jack's is quite round bottomed and therefore quite tender. I could not imaging paddling it tandem other than with a very small adult or a child in the bow. The Chum could certainly be paddled tandem- I could even stand and pole that canoe if required.

I can paddle the Chum in Omer Stringer-style, heeled over and kneeling/sitting on my heels, with no fear of rolling the gunwale underwater even with strong paddle strokes. The Jack's requires constant awareness of weight distribution, and when rolled to the paddle side seems like it will just keep rolling until water pours in!

Having said all that, I enjoy paddling both. If tandem is a real consideration I think 16' such as a Chestnut Pal design should be a consideration. Alex Comb at Stewart River Boatworks sells plans for his canoes, some of which derive from Chestnut canoes.

Canoe plans – Alex Comb

 

[walkabout]

Is it posible to get plans from Carrying place? I've been trying to contat them but without any reply so far. Are they still in business?

First, thank you all for the warm welcome.
I did call Carrying Place and a nice woman answered the call and informed me that they are fully retied. She told me that she would check to see if they had any plans for the Jack's Special left and would call me back. It has been two days and has not called. I really don't want to bug her and her husband thus I will let it go.

 

[walkabout]

Hi Walkabout. Welcome to t he forum.
This doesn't sound right at all. Have you checked any other measurements to see if they check out? If the midship depth is deeper than spec. then it is possible that your plans has a scaling error. Where did ou get your plans from?

After checking the width, which confirmed to be off, I checked the depth. Depth was spot on, thus no scaling issue. As for the designer, I do not feel comfortable calling anyone out.

 

[walkabout]

I'm not sure if carrying place is still in business either, but their website still seems good. I'm not sure if the Jacks Special is an accurate recreation of the Chum, but it did look very similar to Robin's canoe. I did like it quite a lot, but someone made me an offer I couldn't refuse at a time when I needed cash.

As to putting two people in it.....it would be a hairy ride in my opinion. The Chum is fairly round, initial stability might seem a little twitchy, it wouldn't be something I would enjoy doing.

If the carrying place is still in business, check out their wilderness express, which is supposed to be lifted from the Pal. I built a few of them, they are a good large solo for lake travel and gentle rivers, and two people can function in it in an acceptable fashion.

My daughter is very slight, and the Chum would be a solo canoe 90 percent of the time. I am paying heed to your advice and looking at a more stable layout. The Chum still interests me a great deal.

 

[Thestripper]

After checking the width, which confirmed to be off, I checked the depth. Depth was spot on, thus no scaling issue. As for the designer, I do not feel comfortable calling anyone out.

Maybe you should. If there's is something wrong with the plans, and it sounds like there is, and the person who sold them is saying that the hull will flex to spec. once of the forms. It doesn't sound honest.

 

[Rippy]

Memaquay mentioned a boat patterned after the Chestnut Pal. I have both a Pal and a Bob's Special. The Pal is 16' x 34"and the Bob is 15' x 35". I solo trip in the Pal and it works great for me. I have tandem tripped a couple times in it as well. Its no pack horse. Think medium loads at most. I love my Pal. But I also love my Bob's Special for solo and tandem leisurely day trips on local rivers. It's royalex so I don't mind banging around in it.

 

[Robin]

My Chum is just under 30" from outside the plank to outside the plank at the center thwart. I recently read somewhere that Chestnut at some point started measuring the width of their canoes at the widest point, which on my Chum would be down by the waterline.

I have owned and seen quite a few Chums and they were all pretty much the same width, give or take a little.
I have only had another person in my Chum once, my inexperienced grandson and it was pretty sketchy. Maybe if I lowered the bow seat for him it would have been a better experience but I prefer that seat just where it is.

I couldn't find my original plans for the "Jacks Special" but I found a set of copies I made via tracing paper. They are accurate, I sent you a pm

L-R, Chestnut Bobs, Chum and 16' Pal



Solo Chum

Tandem Chum

 

[Travis]

on the subject of a Jacks Special, one is being offered for sale and I have interest in a first wood/canvas canoe, I posted on another thread, here is the link https://www.canoetripping.net/threa...igns-not-available-anymore.128453/post-151450,

I don't have the opportunity to paddle it before purchasing it as the nice gentleman is traveling from Ontario to Colorado and willing to deliver it on his way if im buying it, Im in Missouri

Im hoping someone will view the other post and comment on it, regarding paddling characteristics and such