Black bears that appear threatening

[red langford]

Bears are tasty. Not urban garbage eating bears, but bears that grow up eating blueberries, grubs and grass.

 

[Iskweo]

I love bear threads.I especially love when those with first hand experience chime in. That tends to be mostly Canadians cuz, well, there are lots of bears where we live. And no one gets too upset when you have to shoot one. Same goes for Alaska, but they have different issues with larger nastier critters.

As Perry so aptly puts it, there is not a lot of time to make decisions during an incident. Seeing as its not the sort of thing they hand out second place ribbons for, you want to make sure you come out on top. Mindset is so vital. NO bear is more important than you or another person. And ten feet is way too close.
Personally I would shoot them the minute they came over the fence and if one is clawing at the back door, his goose is cooked.

How does this translate to canoeing? Be aware, give them space, but have a plan thought out of what you want to do. Under what circumstances will you use spray, and what will indicate deadly force needs to be the response. Where and how will you store your firearm? Who will be the shooter? Who decides the appropriate response? Try not to scare everyone out of their wits though. I have had zero problems with bears and that is due to good precautions and awareness. I hope never to have to resort to Plan B.

Red...Montreal steak spice and a bit of Rosemary?


Christy

 

[Philtrum]

Canoeyak, thank you for sharing your experience. Perhaps you'd like to share your post with Dr. Rogers at the Wildlife Research Institute (the bearstudy website). I'm sure he would treat it as valuable and legitimate.
It seems clear to me that local and regional conditions can greatly affect the behavior of any intelligent, resourceful animal. I'd never heard of bear migration, much less due to availability of mast. So thanks for teaching this old dog something new.

 

[ppine]

Nice post by Perry.

Alan,
May I suggest you avoid the use of the word "naïve" in discussions like this one with people that know what they are talking about.

 

[memaquay]

I'm still not walking yet, and as a result, I have reached the end of the internet, and started to watch cat videos.

 

[Alan Gage]

Nice post by Perry.

Alan,
May I suggest you avoid the use of the word "naïve" in discussions like this one with people that know what they are talking about.

Wasn't me that said it. I am naive on the subject so have only been following and not responding.

Alan

 

[ppine]

Sorry PPine
Totally disagree with your stance on not using an attractant and your way off base as far as his condition. He's a full grown older male in his prime and if he was addicted to human food he would have tags in his ears and I would have seen his tracks/scat/damage around my home. Our bears do leave there dens on occasion and no doubt feast on winter die offs/kills. This wasn't his first meal since last December by any means.

I'm not in Lake Tahoe it's a lot different here in rural northwest Connecticut. A one time placing of an attractant in front of a trail camera will not alter this bear's habits and to suggest so is naive.

Maybe in an urban state like Conn the whole bear population is habituated. Maybe the aggressive ones were shot 100 years ago. To extrapolate and think that all black bears are like the ones in Conn is a mistake.

In the western US and most of Canada there are two distinct populations- wild bears and those that have habituated to humans. Wildlife biologists and Fish and Game Agencies go to great lengths to try and keep the wild bears wild.

We are now in the fourth year of a serious drought, and this summer and fall many wild bears will wander into the presence of humans and change their behaviors. We will have bears on the airport runway, bears two blocks from the State Capitol, bears in the alfalfa fields, bears in people's cars and countless home invasions. Two years ago a young bear got stuck in the revolving door at the entrance to a casino in downtown Reno. Most of those bears get shot or euthanized. Some of them get transported in a net by helicopter to the mountains behind my house.

It is now a very common occurrence for bears to den for the winter under people's decks. People go to work and come home to a wrecked house with a trashed refrigerator and a trashed pantry with a full bear sleeping on the floor. These kinds of problems are absolutely exasperated by the feeding of bears, and bad trash collection practices. Bear proof trash cans are now mandated in many areas. Most bear problems are created by people problems although the recent weather is not helping. To think otherwise would be .....inappropriate.

 

[Holmes375]

Extended weather patterns certainly have an effect on the black bear populations and their behaviors. We've had similar drought conditions several years here in Wyoming and the blackies started showing up pretty quick in and near town. The river and its riparian zones become an even more important highway and habitat for them. This, of course, brings the bears into contact with a human population not entirely accustomed to living with blacks. The first problem is always garbage storage and collection. People with multiple dogs are often an early target as many have large quantities of kibble stored outside the house. We've had to trap and relocate several bears now in the last few years and two of them traveled an impressive distance to return. My town is going to have to take a serious look at bear resistant garbage storage and bear-proofing our properties. This has always been the norm for our neighbors up in Jackson and we shall have to follow suit.

And then there's that disquieting racoon explosion we seem to be experiencing...

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

We've had to trap and relocate several bears now in the last few years and two of them traveled an impressive distance to return. My town is going to have to take a serious look at bear resistant garbage storage and bear-proofing our properties.

Or

 

[Holmes375]

She's hired! Please forward contact info

 

[Canoeyak]

As Christy said, I love these bear threads. I like them because whether you agree with someone's opinion or not, any information is education. The more educated you are on the subject, the better decisions you can make when you need to.

Red, I've only tasted bear once and was not that impressed. It kind of reminded me of very sweet pork mixed with I can't describe. As you said diet probably has a lot to do with the taste. A guy I used to work with gave me some to try. He is a regular bear hunter and for all I know it could have been a "garbage dump" bear as he hunts mainly for size (trophy).

Philtrum, I'm not interested in sharing my stories with Dr. Rogers or any other researcher. By reading some of your posts it is obvious that he has your respect and that's fine with me. I always say things as I see them and for the most part I don't agree with his type of research. I'm all for scientific research if its for the protection and good of an animal and if it's done in an inconspicuous way . Once a researcher starts interacting with and interfering with the normal behavior of the animals is where they lose my respect and support. His bears are going to react a lot different then a bear in the "real" wild.

After my two incidents I did a lot of research on black bears. Unfortunately I came to the conclusion that most researchers are trying to come up with the magic solution to understanding bear behavior and preventing any further attacks. I can just see it now, the "Dummies Guide" to preventing bear attacks (sorry but I just had to put this in). No two people react the same to the same situation so why do these people think that they can figure out how a wild animal will act in a predictable way. I would much faster take the advice of a fellow tripper who has experienced the real thing then a researcher with half trained bears that are used to human contact. I always say that a person should be afraid of any wild animal and give them their distance and respect. I am less afraid of wild animals that have had little or no human contact. Those ones are almost always afraid of you and will give you distance and respect most of the time. My experience with bears is that they become problems after to many contacts with humans or their garbage. I have not had a bad experience with a bear tripping, yet I've talked to others that have said there are starting to be more problems on the busy portages and camp sites. On guy I ran into last year claimed that a few years ago on one of the busy portages that the bears would wait for you to take a load and help themselves to the remaining packs. I don't know if this is true but I've actually seen some "weekend warriors" carrying their food over the portage in the plastic bags straight from the store.

A further explanation to my "bear migration". The bears seem to come here to the oak trees along the river from all around. The reason I say this is there are way to many for them to all be "local" bears. They are also sticking around longer because there are lots of careless people who leave stuff around for them to get into. Anywhere from mid August to late September we always see lots. Its not unusual to see a dozen or more in an evening. Besides destroying the trees they leave a lot of massive piles as their calling card. I've never tried them but would guess oak acorns make a good laxative. Anyone thinking that the bear population is in trouble we had two mothers with two cubs each and one with three cubs last fall as regulars. I've attached a picture of one mother and two cubs right out our fence. The second picture is of one of two males that where close to her. While I was watching, she chased one away and one up a 8" poplar tree. I thought she was going to kill him as she tried to shake and break the tree. She probably would have but I went outside because a group of neighbors had come over to see what the commotion was. When she saw me she ran to the cubs and left. Good thing because the group of people were getting close to getting between her and the cubs.




For the animal lovers I've attached a picture of a lynx right outside our fence which is very unusual as they never go near developed areas.



Keep this topic going, I'm enjoying it
Perry

 

[Holmes375]

I've thoroughly enjoyed your posts, Perry. Nothing trumps first hand experience.

I can't believe you had a lynx visit. The wild world apparently thinks you're a fine neighbor

 

[red langford]

Oh now you've gone and brought the Lynx thing up.

Have a look at this from a few weeks ago. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thund...-flies-inside-northern-ontario-home-1.3009166

 

[Holmes375]

Oh now you've gone and brought the Lynx thing up.

Have a look at this from a few weeks ago. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thund...-flies-inside-northern-ontario-home-1.3009166

Wow! I got nuthin' to top that

 

[Philtrum]

I always say things as I see them and for the most part I don't agree with his type of research. I'm all for scientific research if its for the protection and good of an animal and if it's done in an inconspicuous way . Once a researcher starts interacting with and interfering with the normal behavior of the animals is where they lose my respect and support. His bears are going to react a lot different then a bear in the "real" wild.

Perry, I'd like to assume you've read Dr. Rogers' research reports and understand his methods....

 

[ppine]

Rogers gives wildlife biologists a black eye.

 

[Canoeyak]

Red, that was a very interesting story on the lynx. The last two winters there have been a lot of sightings in the area as well as attack's on domestic pets and farm animals. Awhile back there was a story in the local paper that had a NR officer stating that the rabbits were on one of their down cycles in population so the lynx were looking for another food source.

Phil, I have read a lot of Dr. Rogers reports as well as seen him on various nature shows and internet. You either like him and agree with his methods or you don't. Has 40 years of research given the average Joe the information needed to stay safe in the wild, it depends who you ask? Has 40 years of research helped black bears in general, it also depends who you ask? The biggest controversy surrounding him, is all the "research" he is doing really for the benefit of the bears or himself? That depends on who you ask. It is quite obvious that black bears are the only thing on Dr. Rogers' mind and he will do anything required to continue this until the day he dies. Like others, I question the whole "research" thing when you offer things like $2500.00 "field trips" to the general public to interact with bears. Is what he is running any different then a zoo, drive through wildlife park or "amusement park" for people from the "concrete jungle" to check off another item from their bucket list? Maybe I can start offering "wildlife safari's" in my backyard to help with retirement finances. I prefer to not further debate Dr. Rogers' "research" as after spending a lot (probably too much) of my time reading it, I really don't find much benefit to me for use in the wild. It is quite obvious which side of the fence I'm on and no one is going to change my opinion on this matter.

Since moving here in 2006 we have been fortunate to see every type of large mammal in our "yard" except a moose (which we've seen in other area's around here). My wife always makes jokes about our fence that we're the "animals" in the cage and the wildlife come by to look at us. She tells everyone that any animal that enters our "cage" must play by our rules and when we leave the "cage" we must follow the animals rules.

Perry

 

[memaquay]

I read the lynx story when it first came out, and thought it was priceless, especially when he describes “butt stroking” it with his gun, and then when the goat comes back for seconds and starts battering the lynx when it is down. It almost makes me want to buy a goat and take it canoeing. That would be some of the funnest stuff out there. I have no doubt that a goat would charge a bear, and the goat would seem so dang foreign, the bear would probably turn tail and run.

Best bear defence? A goat! Plus, if your trip went a little longer than planned, you could eat the goat. It might be hard to eat your loyal dog, but a goat? In fact, you could buy the goat just before the trip, so you wouldn’t get attached, and eat it on the last night of the trip.

Anyway, people get bent way out of shape on these bear threads. There are no “bear whisperers” out there, most of the people claiming to be ones usually get eaten, like that Timothy Treadwell clown. Like people, bears are unpredictable. Sure, they have general habits and routines, but like humans, they also possess individual personalities. I don’t want to be friends with Mr. Bear, even the nice ones, I want them all to treat me like a mother-in-law, and avoid me at all costs.

In my mind, bears and humans are very similar in conduct. For instance, there are areas in most major cities that I would avoid, because I know that many of the humans there have grown accustomed to stealing and violence as a way of life. Of course, in Canada, one can do little to defend oneself in theses urban jungles, so avoidance is the best plan. In my own little town, I can walk about at any time of night and have very little fear of being accosted by a violent felon. If I am accosted, chances are the perpetrator will know me and my cronies, and realize that if he messes with me, he’s gonna get a beat’n at some future point.

There are some parks in the province that see a high number of people, and as a result, the bears lose their fear, and are comfortable with their thuggish ways. In the parks, people are not allowed to deter the bears with ultimate consequences, so the thug life prevails. I avoid those areas.

Where I trip on Crown Land, people are few, although bears are abundant. Bears also know that messing with people is going to mean a lead headache. Aggressive bears are shot. Non-aggressive bears are shot. The human posse tends to have the upper hand in the backwoods. We can also travel fully armed, unlike the parks. Bear encounters tend to be rare on the Crown Land routes I travel…..is there a correlation? I think so.

In any case, there will never be a winner in theses bears debates, because when one person is convinced that certain studies predict bear behaviour to be a certain way, a bear will disprove the study by acting completely contrary. Kinda like people.

 

[Philtrum]

Rogers gives wildlife biologists a black eye.

That may be at least part of the reason the Minn. DNR is putting the screws to him.

You'd be amazed (or maybe not) at the firestorm that was created - among wildlife managers - when a Pennsylvania wildlife manager suggested that the reason eastern black bears aren't naturally aggressive is that they've evolved where trees are available for escape. This also explained why western black bears behave more like grizzlies, i.e., that they live in the same environment, which has limited trees available for escape. That idea violated some basic attitudes about bears, which the wildlife management community was quite unwilling to question.

 

[Canoeyak]

Memaquay, you nailed it, I couldn't agree with you more. Any wild animal is just that, a wild unpredictable animal. Anyone who thinks they can figure them out is usually not living in reality. I've dealt with lots of wild animals over the years and no two seem to act exactly the same - just like humans they are very individual and unpredictable. Every time something tragic happens in the world, all the "experts" try to figure out why the person did what they did (with nothing more then a theory or guess). If we can't figure out what makes all humans tick and do what they do, how is someone suppose to figure out what animals do and why (with any consistency)?

I love the goat idea and was thinking about it until I realized that my property is classified as "residential" so unless it is farm, I can't own a goat or anything like that. A goat could probably be trained to carry the packs on a portage. Too bad.

Perry