Can the strip builders recommend a set of bits? I see them all over the price spectrum. Also, dual purpose or one for each cut? Radius?
Thanks- Bob
Thanks- Bob
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Bead and cove bits
- Thread starter Cheeseandbeans
- Start date
I recently bought a fairly pricey set of bits for 1/4 inch strips from Lee Valley (around $80 CAD), wanting “the best” after impulse buying a set for $25 - $30 CAD on Amazon to try out bead and cove last year. Not sure the Lee Valley ones actually cut any better, although they may last longer since they appear more substantial. But for the occasional use, and light wood, that most of us have them for I agree that the cheaper ones are more than fine.
If you are using 1/4 inch strips you want a 1/8 radius set - if using 3/16 you want 3/32 radius. The 3/32 radius ones are much harder to find, but Lee Valley has what they call a “full bullnose” bit to cut the bead in that size, while I found a 3/32 bit for cutting the cove from Magnate Tools, although only in 1/2 inch shank size. I can dig up the product numbers for those bits if you are interested. You can also use 1/8 radius bits for 3/16, but you will probably have to do a shallower cove which could be an issue depending on what you are building.
BTW, after doing the rolling bevel thing on my first canoe last year, I have to say bead and cove rules.
Thanks, Tony
If you are using 1/4 inch strips you want a 1/8 radius set - if using 3/16 you want 3/32 radius. The 3/32 radius ones are much harder to find, but Lee Valley has what they call a “full bullnose” bit to cut the bead in that size, while I found a 3/32 bit for cutting the cove from Magnate Tools, although only in 1/2 inch shank size. I can dig up the product numbers for those bits if you are interested. You can also use 1/8 radius bits for 3/16, but you will probably have to do a shallower cove which could be an issue depending on what you are building.
BTW, after doing the rolling bevel thing on my first canoe last year, I have to say bead and cove rules.
Thanks, Tony
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I have read where folks have used the 1/8" radius ones with 3/16" strips. Is that a terrible idea?
Thank you all. Exactly what I was looking for. I will be between woodworking projects soon and was thinking of building a wannigan using this technique. I like the look and it would be good practice for a possible strip boat in the future.
Bob
Bob
I bought cutters for my shaper from Carob, cheap enough and they do the job just fine.
I do not recommend using full radius cutters for any particular strip thickness, that would leave fragile feather edges.
Rather, use cutters with a radius slightly larger than the 1/2 strip thickness, you’ll still have all the benefits of cove and bead but without the fragile edges.
So, 1/4” or 7/32” strips would use a 3/16” radius cutter.
I do not recommend using full radius cutters for any particular strip thickness, that would leave fragile feather edges.
Rather, use cutters with a radius slightly larger than the 1/2 strip thickness, you’ll still have all the benefits of cove and bead but without the fragile edges.
So, 1/4” or 7/32” strips would use a 3/16” radius cutter.
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Not at all - I haven’t done it but lots (maybe most?) people do. Cruiser on this forum used the 1/8 radius bits for his last build with 3/16 strips without serious problems, but did note that some strips tended to slip when going around sharper curves because of the need for shallower coves. That’s the reason I invested a bit of time in finding 3/32 radius bits. I am using both 1/4 and 3/16 strips on my current build, so wanted both sizes.
Pete, I did exactly that (used 1/8" bits on 3/16" strips) on my last build, so my thoughts are .....
The B&C strips come out with a shallower profile, this has a couple of effects, on the final product
- the cove edge is more robust
- the actual joint formed has reduced depth
- there will be a reduced joint area, so glue joint will have less strength
Having the stronger edge on the cove is nice for handling, less splintering better finish.
The idea of joint strength, while correct, can be safely ignored, as the joint strength will be overkill by any definition.
The sleeper here is the reduced joint depth, turns out this is the one you need to consider most. The canoe generally doesn't really have any straight edges, but some are most "twisty" and "bendy" than others .... if you do a project like a Kipawa (John Winters) or a Freedom 17 (Steve Killing) then you have a relatively straight build and few tight bends and twists, so the lower joint depth has little effect and you get the advantage of the stronger cove edges,
However on a build with tumblehome or tighter bends, there is more lateral force on the B&C joint, this is where that shallow depth comes into play, the strips tend to "kick out" in the higher stress areas. This can be a real pita, so like all things "canoe", the answer is never straight forward and always requires you to consider your application.
So the conclusion is , that while not a terrible idea, you really need to consider the project you are using this on .... after having done it, next time i will buy the 3/32" bit set and call it a day.
Brian
A 1/8" radius, (1/4"diameter) is the same bit that is used for bead and coving 1/4" strips.
It works on 3/16" strips, but some are promoting a an even smaller bit radius for 3/16" strips, 3/32" Radius. Check Nick Schade's videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur1DXBcesCM&t=513s
It works on 3/16" strips, but some are promoting a an even smaller bit radius for 3/16" strips, 3/32" Radius. Check Nick Schade's videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur1DXBcesCM&t=513s
I know I'm really in the minority on this one but I always hated beading and coving strips and I don't think it takes any longer in the long run to just do the rolling bevel with a hand plane. It's not hard and many strips need very little, if any, beveling.
Alan
Alan
But to answer the question more directly I've used the 1/8" radius for beading/coving strips from 5/32" to 1/4". It wasn't very good on the 5/32" strips but pretty good with 3/16". I probably would have used the "proper" size but at the time couldn't find them readily so just used what I had.
Alan
Alan
Hey Alan- this may be a dumb question, but how do you secure/hold the strip while you plane it? I am imagining the long thin strips must be awkward to hold straight.
Thanks- Bob
Thanks- Bob
One of the big advantages of bead and cove, is simply strip alignment.
I struggled with my very first canoe! Yes, I hand beveled strips on the hull. It seemed to go pretty good, until I reached the bilge area.
Some of the 1/4" thick strips shifted out of alignment. If a strip shifts 1/16" ? The joint between the strips is only 1/8" thick. By the time you scrape the excess glue, plane and sand? How thick is the joint ? A very thin glue joint.
Hand beveling, is best done with square edge strips. In order to get square edge strips ? You need to run your planks through a planer, before cutting strips.
No need for a planer if you bead and cove your strips. Planers aren't cheap ! A router with bead and cove bits is , compared !
I mentioned I use less glue, when building with bead and cove. Less glue ? Less work scraping and sanding !
Hand beveling is a great learning experience ! Every body should build one canoe that way ! Then set up a router and bead and cove strips for your next build.
Jim
I struggled with my very first canoe! Yes, I hand beveled strips on the hull. It seemed to go pretty good, until I reached the bilge area.
Some of the 1/4" thick strips shifted out of alignment. If a strip shifts 1/16" ? The joint between the strips is only 1/8" thick. By the time you scrape the excess glue, plane and sand? How thick is the joint ? A very thin glue joint.
Hand beveling, is best done with square edge strips. In order to get square edge strips ? You need to run your planks through a planer, before cutting strips.
No need for a planer if you bead and cove your strips. Planers aren't cheap ! A router with bead and cove bits is , compared !
I mentioned I use less glue, when building with bead and cove. Less glue ? Less work scraping and sanding !
Hand beveling is a great learning experience ! Every body should build one canoe that way ! Then set up a router and bead and cove strips for your next build.
Jim
Everything is held with your hands. Use a small (and sharp) planer that can be cupped in your palm. These are commonly available at hardware stores. Set the strip in place on the hull and note which areas need to be beveled. Maybe mark them with pencil ticks if there are multiple areas. Then holding the strip in your hand make swipes with the planer cupped in your palm. Set it in place and double check. Remove some more material if needed. It doesn't take long to get a feel for it and pretty soon you'll be be getting the bevel close enough on the first try much of the time.
It's quiet, quick, and gratifying. Unlike running a hundred strips through a router.
My first boat was done by hand beveling. The next 10 or so were done with bead and cove. The last couple were hand beveled again. My next one will be hand beveled as well. Admittedly it was a little frustrating on my first build because I was new to woodworking and didn't know what I could and couldn't get away with. I have a much better feel for it now.
Alan
It seem to me that you could use the larger size 1/8" cutters for any thickness by adjusting the depth of your cut. For sure you will have less groove to seat into with a thinner strip but the strips will still interlock so you don't see light between the strips.
And get a good surface area for the glue.
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