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Looking for opinions on a solo boat. I paddle lakes, rivers and streams but little whitewater. Also, I often have a 60lb dog with me.
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Northstar or Wenonah for solo
- Thread starter thumper-tx
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I paddled under those exact conditions (including the 60 pound dog) for many years with a Bell Magic. I'm sure a Prism would work too. Or a Wilderness. Or an old Merlin II. Or whatever the current Northstar equivalant of the Merlin II is. Or probably a few other solo hulls I can't think of right now.
Alan
Alan
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Much depends on the dog. Where does the dog sit.. Does the dog sit? Are you otherwise loaded with camping gear?
Swede form boats do poorly with more weight in the bow. All boats do all dog weight in the bow. If you dog is near you that is different. The Prism is more strongly Swede form but even my Merlin II did lousy with a dog 60 lbs and camping gear. She insisted on standing in the bow.. She went from side to side in the stern and I did not like that. The Merlin II was OK with little wind but with dog in bow and stern wind the boat was not easily controllable.
It seems that more symmetrically shaped hulls do better ( I am not talking rocker, I am talking fish eye view) . I believe Teds are more symmetrical from underneath than Wenonahs. But your best bet is to try each that you can with your dog.
My dog ( now gone) at 60 lbs was fun in my Aria which is a symmetrically shaped boat. I could steer it at least.. Another hint is not to go too narrow a boat. Dog comfort is supreme. If dog is not happy you are not happy. Lucy was more centered in this pic of shenanigans
Much depends on the dog. Where does the dog sit.. Does the dog sit? Are you otherwise loaded with camping gear?
Swede form boats do poorly with more weight in the bow. All boats do all dog weight in the bow. If you dog is near you that is different. The Prism is more strongly Swede form but even my Merlin II did lousy with a dog 60 lbs and camping gear. She insisted on standing in the bow.. She went from side to side in the stern and I did not like that. The Merlin II was OK with little wind but with dog in bow and stern wind the boat was not easily controllable.
It seems that more symmetrically shaped hulls do better ( I am not talking rocker, I am talking fish eye view) . I believe Teds are more symmetrical from underneath than Wenonahs. But your best bet is to try each that you can with your dog.
My dog ( now gone) at 60 lbs was fun in my Aria which is a symmetrically shaped boat. I could steer it at least.. Another hint is not to go too narrow a boat. Dog comfort is supreme. If dog is not happy you are not happy. Lucy was more centered in this pic of shenanigans
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I've always carried ballast in the stern to counter act the weight of the dog in the bow. Large roll top dry bag filled with water at the put-in is the best I've found so far. The canoes have always handled fine with the dog. They just handle like they have a tripping load rather than empty.
Alan
Alan
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I should add that in my part of the world there are few canoe dealers and none that stock lightweight boats. I have little chance to try before I buy. Also, I usually have only gear fro the day and the boat is lightly loaded. Are there any quality differences between the Northstar and the Wenonah? The northstar is a bit lighter and comes with comes with some different hull material options.
I'm sure there are but not likely to be anything that matters.
That should be a pretty easy task for most boats to meet. There are a lot of hull designs out there and they'll all feel and behave a little differently. But whatever one you get you'll soon learn how to paddle it and it will be fine. If you're relatively new to canoeing and are just looking to get out and enjoy cruising on the water with your dog stick with something in the 14.5-16.5' range without a lot of rocker and about 30" wide.
Alan
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Alan... I have been paddling off and on for 40 years but a lot of it was with aluminum boats. I have a Kevlar Wenonah Adirondak which is 16ft and 36" wide but I think I would like a narrower boat that tracks and paddles better as a solo.
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Speaking as a Wlderness owner, if you're doing day trips with a 60# dog forward of you, you will need to do one of 2 things: 1) 40#'s of ballast sternward; 2)move the seat sternward at least 4" ( also involves moving the stern thwart back 4-6"). The seat is placed too close to the center at the factory.
For any thing other than lakes and even then I would go with a DY (David Yost) that Northstar uses over a Wenona design. When you are talking the Northstar canoe I believe your are asking about their Northwind solo. Or maybe the Polaris rigged for solo. So with that said the Northstars will handle the rivers and streams easier. The larger the solo the more I assume that you will be in the weight range it was designed for with the dog, gear and ballast. From limited experience with dogs in canoes the larger the primary stability the better. Before we noticed to many alligators watching the dog waiting for it to become a snack the Mohawk solo 14 that has a flat bottom was her favorite solo. Her absolute favorite was a Mohawk Blazer tandem. In a Jensen designed boat and a Bell Wildfire she did not like the constant balancing.
On a side note Yellow canoe is correct the dogs happiness will be your happiness. Have a pad or something in the bottom of the boat to keep the dog from sitting in water. Train the dog to sit in the canoe on dry land. Use a teeter totter used for agility dogs or some other method to get the dog used to shifting their balance while on dry land.
On a side note Yellow canoe is correct the dogs happiness will be your happiness. Have a pad or something in the bottom of the boat to keep the dog from sitting in water. Train the dog to sit in the canoe on dry land. Use a teeter totter used for agility dogs or some other method to get the dog used to shifting their balance while on dry land.
I second that. I have a Wilderness and I moved the seat back about 7 inches soon after buying it. I like the hull -- a good jack of all trades touring solo.
Wenonah and Northstar have different design philosophies. Carl Yost DY's son designs for Ted Bell. Presumably his dads starting point design for the paddler carried on
Wenonahs still show the racing heritage
I don't care for them in general as I move around a lot kneeling and heel the boat to aid in turns
Sitters go more for Wenonahs and most of the designs assume that paddling will be done with flat boat
Both are well made .
Wenonahs still show the racing heritage
I don't care for them in general as I move around a lot kneeling and heel the boat to aid in turns
Sitters go more for Wenonahs and most of the designs assume that paddling will be done with flat boat
Both are well made .
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yellowcanoe... Thanks, that is the type of input I am looking for. I am in my late 60's and the kneeling thing doesn't work for me any more except for brief periods. Sounds like the Wenonah's might fit my style better.
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thumper,
My name is Bear. I'm the GM at Northstar. A little info for you.
Many paddlers value Yost designs for their ability to kneel and heel them. However, we rig every canoe for sitting, unless a retailer or consumer requests a canoe be set up for kneeling. I'd estimate that over two-thirds of Bell and now Northstar paddlers sit. Like you they're aging and are more comfortable sitting.
Northstars can be paddled flat, in fact they perform great in calm conditions. However, they also excel in rough water - wind and waves. You may not seek out rough water, but you'll certainly appreciate the secondary stability that Northstar's offer when you find yourself paddling in challenging conditions. When yellowcanoe mentions heeling the canoe and not paddling it flat, those comments are related to the predictable secondary stability that Northstars have. For many paddlers, secondary stability is like a seat belt, they hope to never use it, but are thankful to have it.
I hope this makes sense. Please don't hesitate to contact us for info.
Bear
My name is Bear. I'm the GM at Northstar. A little info for you.
Many paddlers value Yost designs for their ability to kneel and heel them. However, we rig every canoe for sitting, unless a retailer or consumer requests a canoe be set up for kneeling. I'd estimate that over two-thirds of Bell and now Northstar paddlers sit. Like you they're aging and are more comfortable sitting.
Northstars can be paddled flat, in fact they perform great in calm conditions. However, they also excel in rough water - wind and waves. You may not seek out rough water, but you'll certainly appreciate the secondary stability that Northstar's offer when you find yourself paddling in challenging conditions. When yellowcanoe mentions heeling the canoe and not paddling it flat, those comments are related to the predictable secondary stability that Northstars have. For many paddlers, secondary stability is like a seat belt, they hope to never use it, but are thankful to have it.
I hope this makes sense. Please don't hesitate to contact us for info.
Bear
I own a Prism and like it for speed and flat water paddling. However, no rocker gives it a turn radius like an aircraft carrier, so I don't use it on rivers. I know I can lean it and get it to turn better, but doing so with a 60# dog will probably end with one or both of us swimming. If I buy another solo, which is likely 
, it will be the NW Solo. Last year I had a chance to try it and totally loved it. All that said, I have three dogs, two of which are a little over 60#, and the third is #20. I have taken all three of them with me...once...don't know what possessed me that day...but generally speaking, if I had to buy a canoe for me plus a wiggly 60# dog (all mine are wiggly), I'd look for a 15' prospector (or such) and paddle it solo. Slower but oodles of stability. Keeps the panic spikes in my blood pressure down ;-)
, it will be the NW Solo. Last year I had a chance to try it and totally loved it. All that said, I have three dogs, two of which are a little over 60#, and the third is #20. I have taken all three of them with me...once...don't know what possessed me that day...but generally speaking, if I had to buy a canoe for me plus a wiggly 60# dog (all mine are wiggly), I'd look for a 15' prospector (or such) and paddle it solo. Slower but oodles of stability. Keeps the panic spikes in my blood pressure down ;-)
I personally own a Wilderness in Rx and a Northwind solo in starlite, The two boats have similar specks but are completely different in the water. The NW solo IMO is a little more "tippier" as compared to the wilderness but that "feeling" goes away in just a couple of mins. When I have gotten into rough water, (current one way, wind the opposite way) I had to drop to my knees to relieve a little of the "pucker factor" but still felt uncomfortable. Same conditions in the NW solo had me "feeling" only a slight discomfort from a sitting position. I have not paddled the NW solo form a kneeling position, or from a elevated sitting position that would be required after replacing the drops to kneeling drops. I am going to try a set of kneeling drops, just because I like to move around a little.
Bigsilver could you take pictures of your two boats from the end at ground level? That is where you will notice a cross section difference that might help others...
Canoes are more stable underway than at rest and primary stability is that uh oh feeling when you get in. Secondary is resistance to the boat flipping.
See the trouble with specifications is that they are incomplete telling you only how big the boat is and nothing about its shape.Rocker is a drafting convention and to this date no two makers measure it the same.. I do think Wenonah has 1.25bow rocker and no stern.. Specs just say rocker 1.25. Northwind 2.5 bow rocker 1.5 stern..
Its can be hard to shop with only part of the information available
Canoes are more stable underway than at rest and primary stability is that uh oh feeling when you get in. Secondary is resistance to the boat flipping.
See the trouble with specifications is that they are incomplete telling you only how big the boat is and nothing about its shape.Rocker is a drafting convention and to this date no two makers measure it the same.. I do think Wenonah has 1.25bow rocker and no stern.. Specs just say rocker 1.25. Northwind 2.5 bow rocker 1.5 stern..
Its can be hard to shop with only part of the information available
May be this weekend before I can get to it, but I will see what I can do.
