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White Water Canoe Plans

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I've been fiddling around with designing a solo canoe for running some Ozark rivers. There isn't any real serious whitewater to negotiate, up to and including class 3. I'm looking for a canoe for only river running. Does anyone here have plans or know of anything available along these lines? I like to have existing lines to go off of when I design so I can have some ballpark references. I think I've settled on a construction method that can get me a tough canoe that can handle a lot of grounding and impacts, but we'll get into that later.
 
Don't get too excited, it probably won't be a pretty canoe. Something along the lines that only its Frankensteinien father could love. My guideboat is done, this is my next project. I've grown tired of kevlar, fiberglass, and epoxy. Nothing wrong with those materials, but I have the attention span of a small child.

Anyway, if you all have even some basic lines or can take some measurements of purely river running canoes it would help me get done with the designing and on to the prototyping.

If anyone has a good river canoe we could measure, a center station and a quarter station would help me a lot.
 
The ones I've looked at (not real close) are rockered, deep, blunt ended, and flat bottomed. Oh and soft chined. Royalex, or plastic.

What are you going to us for material?

Jim
 
I did solo trips in a whitewater 16 from Gil Gilpatrics book for 3 or 4 years. It is a tandem boat but not too big to handle solo. This boat turns on a dime but you need to have a paddle in the water at all times or you may spin around, not good for fishing. The guy who built it made a smaller version for himself, it may be something you could look at.
 
I'll have to look up the Gillpatrick plans. Thanks for the tip.

Memaquay, do you still have the plans for your Raven? That would be very helpful as that is the kind of canoe I'm looking for. Maybe a little shorter and a bit more rocker, but it would make a great reference. My method would have chines so I can't directly copy an already existing design.

Jim, I will be using aluminum, closed cell foam, and nylon for construction. I got some basic measurements from the Mohawk Canoes website and they have some midsection drawings that I've been using to design from so far.
 
Ok this is getting really interesting... sounds like a skin on frame of some sort.... maybe I'm wrong!?!!
 
Yep. You guessed it. It's going to be a skin on frame taking ideas from George Dyson baidarkas, PakCanoes, and river rafts. It's going to have 6061 aluminum tube stringers, wood frames for now, and a 26 oz/sq. yd. nylon skin coated with hypalon like a raft. PakCanoes use a foam pad to cushion the skin from the frames. That's where most of the damage on skin on frames occur, when the skin gets pinched against a frame. I'm planning on covering my stringers with pipe insulation foam instead.

It should be pretty beefy compared to a typical skin on frame, but I worked out some numbers and it should weigh about 40-45 lbs for a 13 footer when I'm done.

I'm probably going to make a prototype out of emt conduit first as the aluminum tubing gets pretty pricey.
 
I remember that baidarka... Cool it should be an interesting thread to follow!
 
Yeah. George is a pretty crazy guy. For people that aren't familiar he studied the history of the baidarka (kayak) in Alaska. Then he started building them with lashed aluminum framing and originally canvas and fiberglass skins before he switched to nylon. The biggest kayak he made was a 48 footer with plans to make a 96 footer that never materialized. Then he made a small fleet of 36 footers that roamed around the west coast for some time. He built all these while living 90' up in a treehouse that he built out of one massive old growth cedar log he found drifting at sea.
 
Sounds cool !

But I wonder about the durability of foam pipe insulation ?

Jim
 
I'm concerned about that too. Not really the durability over time, but if it's hanging in the rafters of my garage I'm worried the rats will go after it. They love to knaw on that kind of stuff and pack it in their dens. Maybe it's time I get a new cat.

My best thought now is to cover the foam in hypalon too. Certainly some will soak through the skin and stick to it anyway. If you have a better suggestion, I'm all ears. Basically there needs to be something that keeps the skin off the stringers and affords plenty of cushioning at the same time. Some sort of inflatable bladder could work and that would make it easier to change skins if I needed, but that seems like too much potential for trouble on its own.

Edit to add: Thanks Jim. That's why I love this forum. The collective, especially here, except the random abolishment from time to time, is what gets us to a greater solution than one persons ideas alone.
 
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What about doubling the fabric where it makes contact with the frame ? Glue in an extra layer.
Just an idea !

Jim
 
I think PakCanoes double up the layers along the stringers too. I'll have to try that out.
 
With a loaded tripping canoe plenty of Class III rapids are serious. Especially 50 miles from a road with cold water.
 
I didn't mean to say class 3 isn't. That is a rarity for Ozark rivers. It's occasional and short sections. Even if I'm in a boat solo there are still others we trip with along for help. I just want the boat to be prepared for that as the worst case. I maybe should have titled the thread differently. I'm building a down river boat only. No open water. I want it to handle shallow draft and lots of twists and turns with occasional impacts in rapids, but more so than I'd be willing to do in a wood cored or a kevlar and glass boat. I also don't intend to take out an experimental design and construction on a torture test of extended class 3 immediately.

Edit: these are my home waters. Rivers I know. I'm not just going to cobble something together from scratch and take it to unknown territory. Who do you think I am, Alan Gage? 😜
 
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lol. I take composites canoes down class III rapids on a daily basis, and they don't suffer from the experience!! Anyway I,m really interested to see what you will come up with!!

Cheers
 
I'm sorry, but I have to rant. Ppine, you don't think I know what rivers I'm specifically designing a boat for? What was the purpose of your post? Jog on if you don't have some reference plans for me or a legitimate addition to the trial construction I'm proposing.
 
But I wonder about the durability of foam pipe insulation ?

It would not prevent the rodent chewability, but there are different kinds of foam pipe insulation.

I use the typical gray stuff for a variety of purposes, but also have a couple sections of black split foam pipe insulation that is more dense, more cushiony and made from a different type of foam. I think it is this stuff, K-flex:

http://www.kflexusa.com/HomePages/Ma...ookieSupport=1

K-flex also makes jacketing and cladding for split foam insulation.

EDIT: Also 90 and 45 degree elbows

http://www.kflexusa.com/HomePages/MarketsHome.aspx?ID=36&productID=64&line=23

http://www.kflexusa.com/HomePages/MarketsHome.aspx?ID=36&productID=65&line=21
 
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