-
Happy Scream Day! 😱
Seat height?
- Thread starter Sven
- Start date
My practice to to have the seat positioned high enough off the bottom that I can easily extract my legs from underneath when kneeling - about 10 inches from the floor for me. Foot entrapment is what I'm looking to avoid. My tradeoff is sacrificing some lower center of gravity that a lower hung seat provides.
While I prefer a solid piece of wood spacer rather than hung dowels with bolts for more rigidity the second has the advantage of being adjustable for you to experiment with different seat heights. I personally do about 10 inches off the floor but I kneel . For your boat with no cargo it may be too high as this may not be a terribly stable position. If you sit exclusively you may wish to go lower. Its all about ease of getting up off the seat in that case.
I find foot entrapment not an issue as I do not wear heeled footwear when kneeling and I do capsize on purpose. Five inches would do with my water socks as your feet twist sideways.. If you are booted the equation changes to more risky.
I like seats that are canted a little forward.. about an inch lower in the front than the rear.. This helps avoid back strain when sitting or kneeling for me.
You can always do the dowel bolt thing and then replace the dowels fore and aft with a single sculpted piece of wood once you have figured out how low you want the seat
I find foot entrapment not an issue as I do not wear heeled footwear when kneeling and I do capsize on purpose. Five inches would do with my water socks as your feet twist sideways.. If you are booted the equation changes to more risky.
I like seats that are canted a little forward.. about an inch lower in the front than the rear.. This helps avoid back strain when sitting or kneeling for me.
You can always do the dowel bolt thing and then replace the dowels fore and aft with a single sculpted piece of wood once you have figured out how low you want the seat
Same deal here for this kneeling paddler, about the same space as WD's maybe more if boots are going to be worn. IIRC, 11.5 inches for me and rubber boots will not jam underneath when kneeling. This might not be possible with smaller solo canoes, maybe bolt to the inwale underneath without drops to provide the clearance.
PS... foot entrapment has been an issue when wearing large insulated boots in cold weather and kneeling. Not comfortable, either.
PS... foot entrapment has been an issue when wearing large insulated boots in cold weather and kneeling. Not comfortable, either.
Last edited:
Stability is my first concern !
If you sit and switch paddle, and hang your seats. Set them low, for max stability. If the seat is too low, it's easy to raise them.
For a hull that is 11" deep, I set the back rail of the seat at about 3" down from the shear. The front edge another 1/2"- 3/4" lower.
For those that like to use a double bladed paddle. A 6" drop is pretty comfortable.
Years ago When I built my first Pearl, I positioned the seat way to high ! I really wasn't comfortable in it. Cut longer drops, bought longer bolts, and turned Pearl into one of my favorite canoes !
If you kneel, stability is not a problem. I position the seat high, and slanted, so the front edge, doesn't Bite the underside of your leg.
Have fun !
Jim
If you sit and switch paddle, and hang your seats. Set them low, for max stability. If the seat is too low, it's easy to raise them.
For a hull that is 11" deep, I set the back rail of the seat at about 3" down from the shear. The front edge another 1/2"- 3/4" lower.
For those that like to use a double bladed paddle. A 6" drop is pretty comfortable.
Years ago When I built my first Pearl, I positioned the seat way to high ! I really wasn't comfortable in it. Cut longer drops, bought longer bolts, and turned Pearl into one of my favorite canoes !
If you kneel, stability is not a problem. I position the seat high, and slanted, so the front edge, doesn't Bite the underside of your leg.
Have fun !
Jim
G
Guest
Guest
One potential complication to using long gunwale-hung drops is the limited availability of machine screws in lengths over 6 inches.
A 6 inch machine screw, less ¾ inch for the seat frame depth, minus room for a flange washer on top and flat washer and nylock on the bottom yields a 5 inch drop at best.
6 inch machine screws have other complications with my outfitting style. That long a drop works more rigidly with a truss hanger than swaying around on drilled dowels or pegs. Add to that I’m no lightweight, and sometimes plop heavily on the seat, especially at awkward landings.
3/16 machine screws at that length seem suspect in durability, so I use ¼ inch, which leads to another complication; drilling a ¼ inch hole in a ½ inch thick piece of wood doesn’t leave a lot of beef on the sides, even if you drill perfectly centered holes. So I make my seat drops ¾ inch thick.
On vinyl gunwales canoes the deepest drops I use are 4 ½ inches long; by the time a 6 inch machine screw passes through the vinyl gunwales and gets washers and nuts added there isn’t a lot of shank remaining.
Note as well: unless you do a lot of canoe seat tinkering how many people just happen to have a 3/16 or ¼ inch drill bit that long?
G
Guest
Guest
On every solo I have ever been new to, I have always, after paddling it some, adjusted the seat several times(usually up) before settling on a height/angle. A boat that feels tender at first quickly becomes Ok and I raise the seat up.(I kneel). After a first long paddle I often fine tune the height or angle for comfort. Once when picking up a new boat in the ADKs and going directly on a paddle, I brought some spacers and tools to do it there. My intension is to make solid drops after settling on a height, but usually I don't get around to it.
As most of you know, I am building a tandem, so stability is a major concern. Some of my canoeing partners have been twitchy while in the boat. Alright it's really only been one person in particular. Last year, this individual almost flipped me out onto the boulder strewn shoreline at a portage. Boy was I pissed! Anyhow back on topic.
I never kneel, but was also thinking of doing cleat mounted seats, my brain tells me they will be more rigid. I would assume they would almost add the same rigidity as a thwart. Please correct me if I'm way off the mark on this.
How low is too low is my million dollar question?
Thanks for the input. You all are very helpful.
I never kneel, but was also thinking of doing cleat mounted seats, my brain tells me they will be more rigid. I would assume they would almost add the same rigidity as a thwart. Please correct me if I'm way off the mark on this.
How low is too low is my million dollar question?
Thanks for the input. You all are very helpful.
Mike, I have used 1/4" Carriage bolts forever. My Hardware store carries them in at least 7" length. They are NOT stainless. Stainless can be ordered, but check your line of credit, as they are pricey.
Early days, I would Braze the tops of those carriage bolts, so they appeared to be brass. They work fine.
1/4" x 18" Drill bits are easy to find, check Home Depot. I have at least 4 of them, that I dedicate Solely for drilling hangers. They make it easy to align the drill for accurate drilling. Just go slow !
Ed's Canoe carries 3/16" or 10/24, pan head, Stainless hanger bolts. Replacements for the Bell long drops. I believe $20.00 a set . I believe they are 6"
I cheat a little with my seats ! The center is an inch lower than the hanger drops. Seats are made from 5/4 stock. The drops are 5/4 as well, and you can see, cut to follow the tumblehome of the hull. They don't swing left or right, or back and forth.
I make my seats a little Beefier than every commercial seat I've seen. At 240# they haven't given way
Jim
Last edited:
Yep, me too. The other day I was taking a break and took a look at the seat in my OT Camper. Some knucklehead had installed the stern seat with the longer dowels in the rear. That explained the uncomfortable seat. Problem solved, much more comfortable now.
G
Guest
Guest
The ability to use carriage bolts is one advantage of wood gunwale canoes
I have altered the seat height or cant in almost every boat I have owned and am very fond of this DIY shape.
I think of them as “half-truss” drops, with a nice sturdy edge under the inwale. They are much easier to drill and install (and shorten as need be) than full truss fussiness, and almost as stiff. Gobs sturdier than dowels or pegs.
Those are: 3 ½ inch and 2 ½ inch seat drops, canted 3 ½ inch kneeling thwart drops and utility thwart drops, to be drilled & size/shape customized for rebuilds.
The curved cut is repeated for the next side of each piece, so I need only do half as much custom scroll or band saw work (and waste no wood). I could easier have simply cut them as a simple \_/ , but the little repeatable curve adds some aesthetic appeal.
That little curve was tricky to figure out (probably more Euclidian geometry challenge) and is of course different for each size drop.
Those are easily made from dimensional 3 or 4 inch lumber. I have index card templates of those various repeatable curves and just cut new ones as needed.
Seat height and placement has been probably the most undefined subject for canoe building I have found. A lot of personal preference as you can see from the reply's so far. My experience with a higher seat mount is the same as Jim's, the center of gravity is so high that the slightest move and you feel yourself tipping making it very uncomfortable. I set the seats on my tandem at eight inches from the floor to the seat bottom with a 12" deep hull and it was a tipping machine. After lowering them to a 6" height the hull was still lively but much more enjoyable to paddle and has not been flipped since.
I like to compare things to get some perspective so when I look at the stability difference between Kayaks and Canoes I think Kayaks gain a huge advantage with center of gravity low from sitting at or below the waterline. I honestly think that is why they are so popular making my case for a low seat in a Canoe for stability and comfort.
I like to compare things to get some perspective so when I look at the stability difference between Kayaks and Canoes I think Kayaks gain a huge advantage with center of gravity low from sitting at or below the waterline. I honestly think that is why they are so popular making my case for a low seat in a Canoe for stability and comfort.
Why not a truss drop Jim? I'd think with that much drop those pillars would be prone to wobble.
The key is they don't "wobble" ! If they did, I'd be using a truss.
The drops fit tight enough against hull, they stay put. When I drill them, they are clamped to the hull, and they say there. I haven't had any trouble with the 25 canoes so far..
Jim
Similar threads
