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PFD avoidance issues

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Since watching the Cold Water Boot Camp video I have pledged to turn over a new leaf. I have always regarded pfd's with a certain amount of disdain. The list of excuses is long and varied. I have come to the realisation that I am an idiot though. So I need to seek out a new pfd that I will actually wear.

My problem is that it needs to be less bulky than most with freedom of movement. A couple of pockets to hold a minimal ditch kit would be a super good idea. Most importantly it must be comfortable so that I will wear it all the time. That is my intention....wear it all the time so it is second nature to use it. Just like a seat belt. I have been looking at some of the self inflaters from Mustang. Has anyone ever tried one? Do they actually work all the time? The last thing I need is to get dumped in the cold and have a misfire.

I have tried karins paddling vest and while it works good to keep you afloat it is way too bulky for me to want to wear it all the time. Which is my reasoning behind the self inflater.

Thoughts, experiences, ideas please.

Christy
 
Hi Christy, I have one of those Mustang inflatable vests. You can blow it up by mouth, pull the lanyard/ trigger and also it has a pressure trigger for if you were under water. It's light, comfortable and non-restrictive. It looks to be well made, Mustang has a good reputation.

I wore it a few times and got to thinking: "If I ever need this thing, I'll really need it. Do I want to depend of some process that must happen before it floats me?"

Now, it may well be an overactive imagination but I sure like the feel of my regular PFD, bulky as it is in comparison. I think that the foam flotation can provide a pillow and if just worn as a vest can hold in some heat.

I went out to my storage and found it, looks to be still in good shape.

So, if you want the Ranger inflatable send me your address via. PM

Best Wishes, Rob
 
I am glad you are thinking about it. Wearing a PFD is a personal choice. I believe if you paddle enough, you will experience, or hear about a case where a PFD would have saved a life. I work in river safety for th NPS. Each year we have several deaths. In almost every case the person drowned without a PFD. Take a look at the Astral v8. It is light, sturdy, and runs cooler than any other foam vest.
 
Hi Christy, I have one of those Mustang inflatable vests. You can blow it up by mouth, pull the lanyard/ trigger and also it has a pressure trigger for if you were under water. It's light, comfortable and non-restrictive. It looks to be well made, Mustang has a good reputation.

I wore it a few times and got to thinking: "If I ever need this thing, I'll really need it. Do I want to depend of some process that must happen before it floats me?"

I'm with Rob (OM) on this one. How do you know that it will work in a moment of crisis. Lots of things are supposed to work and usually they do but sometimes they don't. You're supposed to stay in the boat for example. At one campsite chipmunks chewed two holes through a plastic collapsible bowl while I cooked super. I was right there setting up and cooking and didn't notice it happening. Are you going to take the time to inflate and check it every time you put it on.

I was stubborn for the longest time but finally started wearing one for my family's piece of mind. I go solo most of the time and they worry. Find one that's comfortable. After I got some handy stuff in the pockets and a ball compass pinned to it I started liking the handiness of it. Plus it's another layer to keep my core warm. I sometimes put it on in the morning just to warm up.

I'm going to tell on myself. Like I said, I pinned a ball compass and use it to stay on course during the day. I have a good Silva compass in my day pack handy if I need more accuracy. Most of the time I just look down at the one on my chest and it's good enough to keep me on course. I get so used to looking at it after a few days that I forget that its fastened on my PFD not my jacket. A few times while wondering around looking for wood I've looked down to see which way is it back to camp and had a oh crap moment. Fortunately I wasn't that far from camp and just had to find the lake to get oriented.
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I have a Stohlquist PFD I bought a couple years ago after losing a bunch of weight and my old one no longer fitting. It is bulky but reasonably comfortable. I wear it for all lake crossings and during rough days and in the shoulder seasons, but not always in the smallish rivers we usually paddle. It can get hot wearing it. Odd thing about it after water testing it for flotation. It will roll me onto my back as it should, but then when my legs drop down (I don't float), it rolls me face down before getting upright again. That was a bit unnerving the first time I tried it. If I were awake and able to keep my feet up it would be fine, but if not, it will roll me face down.

Karin
 
Well Dave, Very glad you've decided to wear that vest, there's not never enough nice guys like you in the world, it'd be a real shame to lose one when it's so easily prevented. And besides, even if you were a stinker (discounting the bean factor) we all would miss seeing you work your craftsmanship as a new knife unfolds. Your work is as close as I expect to get to genuine magic in this life.

Thinking about it some more: although I am content going with the usual foam floatation vest, if it takes a blow up PFD to get Christy to wear any kind of life vest it's all for the best. All my worry-warting is really foolish concerning the Ranger vest, if any of their vest failed to function for any reason that had to do with design or production the company could be held to account. Ranger has been in business way too long to ever let something like that happen.

Best Wishes, Rob
 
I have always regarded pfd's with a certain amount of disdain. The list of excuses is long and varied. I have come to the realisation that I am an idiot though. So I need to seek out a new pfd that I will actually wear.

Most importantly it must be comfortable so that I will wear it all the time.

Lskweo, do you have a well-stocked outfitter within reasonable driving distance? Or have one on route when you travel?

For me buying a PFD is like buying a pair of shoes – I have to be able to try one on, walk around the store wearing it, sit in a boat, make some paddle stroke movements, etc. It is not a purchase I could make from a catalog or on-line, I need to visit a brick and mortar outfitter.

There was a time when I did not wear a PFD as a matter of course. I wore one most of the time, but not always; if it was hot and humid, or I was summer paddling the shallow trout stream near home the PFD might ride along in the canoe.

When I started paddling with my young sons it became a “Do as I do” kind of thing and quickly became akin to wearing a seat belt in the car – I snap on the seat belt without thinking about it, even if I am simply turning the truck around in the driveway. The seat belt has become an ingrained habit (although sometimes when I am moving the truck a few feet in the driveway and go to take the seat belt off I do think “Hummm, that was silly”).


Full disclosure: I wear a PFD 95% of the time, and start off wearing one 100% of the time. If it is mid-August, 100F with high humidity and I’m paddling some calm, no-shade coastal bay that is six inches deep I may make the conscious risk management decision to shed the PFD. I do feel oddly naked without it, and will put it back on even in those conditions if it clouds over or the temperature drops.

My problem is that it needs to be less bulky than most with freedom of movement. A couple of pockets to hold a minimal ditch kit would be a super good idea.

Less bulky is a hard target to fulfill and still meet minimum buoyancy requirements. For my preferences it is more a question of how much floatation is distributed where, in what shape and configuration.

That is further complicated because I sit and use a back band; for the back band to be comfortable the foam coverage in the back needs to be either full cut, down to near my waist, or a partial that ends above the back band. If I was a kneeler my requirements would be very different.

I believe that PFD design comfort continues to improve, with better ergonomically positioned adjustment straps at the waist (and shoulders) to custom fit different physiques. Some neoprene or etc paddling at the shoulder straps is a nice non-chafe feature. Mesh panels for breathability. More thoughtful pocket placement and design.

Like you I want a couple of easily accessed, well drained pockets, although I try to keep minimal stuff there (tiny clipped-in-pocket pouch with spare truck keys, lighter and a $20 bill in one, whistle, carabineer, compass and tiny flashlight in the other pocket).

I try, but I’ll often slip in the small digital camera or a monocular once underway. And I always have a folding rescue knife on the lash tab. Trying to self-rescue with those bulging pockets and knife is more problematic than necessary.

Personal PFD choice is akin to selecting some combination of speed, maneuverability, volume, sea worthiness and etc in a boat. Full cut with evenly distributed foam, or mesh partials with thicker panels in strategic areas? Voluminous or slender pockets, or none? How much of a ditch kit to carry in the pockets vs can you get back yourself in the boat?

Some warm weather paddler like having a dromedary feature. I’m a canteen gulper, so no thanks. How much fastwater/whitewater do you run? A full-cut high flotation B52 or the like would be better than a mesh summer PFD, but not for a flatwater trip at the height of summer.

Lash tab? Even the simple position of that wee bit is important. Too low and it may interfere with self-rescue. Too high and it becomes noticeable with some paddle strokes.

I have a question about inflatable or partially inflatable PFD’s – Is there a requirement that they be worn to be legal? I believe that is the case with pull over PFD’s.
 
I confess to not always wearing one on warm flat water. I warm weather I sometimes wear a inflatable rather than nothing. I do always wear one in cold water though. I just bought a new MTI cruised pfd for cold weather paddling. It's way more comfortable than my old one and should float me better with my face out of the water.
Turtle
 
It's way more comfortable than my old one and should float me better with my face out of the water.

That is kind of hard to test in the store, or without actually floating/swimming in the PFD.

I’m not sure how that really works. Some of my PFD’s are mesh backed, with most of the buoyancy in the chest area. I would think that would float me chest/face up, but in reality not so much without some active foot flapping or treading water.

That may be more a matter of “How much buoyancy” than where it is placed. A big, full cut PFD is going to elevate your breathing apparatus better than something that meets minimum buoyancy requirement standards.

Swimming in a PFD can be a most revealing dip. Pick a nice sunny summer day when you have time for the PFD to dry out and go for a swim. Play with the waist and shoulder adjustments as you are bobbing about. My minimum buoyancy mesh panel PFD’s are not going to save me if I’m unconscious in the water. Oh well.

heck, you are already wet. Get in the boat and see how that adjustment works for paddling comfort and constriction. Capsize the canoe and try to self rescue.

Too comfy and loosely adjusted, rising up to hit you in the chin, isn’t going to be much help unless you brought a snorkel. Do the pockets or knife interfere with self rescue? If you can self-rescue on a calm sunny day could you do so in the wind or wave likely to put you out of the boat?

I don’t think I could, but I haven’t tried in a long time. If I get a warm day with some wind and wave blowing ashore and a competent spotter I may have to make a swim and self-rescue a New Year’s resolution.

If I can’t get back in the boat on my own, or with a companion/spotter’s assistance, I’d like to know before exhausting myself or my options.

Yeah, I’m going for a planned swim this year. Oh no, I have plans.
 
I have the same thought as Mike about needing to try stuff on to see if I like it or not. To that end I do have 4 good outfitter stores locally so that may become my quest in a few months. I have tried karins stohlquist and while it works, there are a few things that I dont like about it. That is why I didnt buy one too when she got hers. Too bulky.
I have looked at the ones at MEC and Cabelas and they look less tummyish than hers so that may work. Decades ago, I had a surplus pilots inflatable that I used to just blow up by mouth, I did have the cartridges for it too. It was pretty handy in that it had no back. That is what got me thinking about the inflatables. Karin does have a Mustang floater coat that is way too big for her now that I may appropriate for fall trips.

I am seeing a possible need to taylor my pfd to the season. inflatable for hot summer weather and more traditional type for shoulder seasons. I believe I will take OM up on his offer and try out that inflatable of his to see how reliable they are. My real concern is that as with any pneumatic item all it takes is one poke and they are pretty well shot. You know, like, rolling your canoe in some heavy water and bumping into something on the way out. Or holing it and being left without in the middle of a trip. They are likely really good for say, tournament fishing and such, not so much for mutli day back country use.
 
I believe I will take OM up on his offer and try out that inflatable of his to see how reliable they are.

I can see one really advantageous place for an inflatable. On some permitted trips (the Green in Utah for one) there is a requirement to carry a spare PFD. A spare inflatable, if the meets permit BLM/NPS specs, would be ideal in that guise.

If you try it and don’t like it I’ll trade you something for it.
 
Swimming in a PFD can be a most revealing dip. Pick a nice sunny summer day when you have time for the PFD to dry out and go for a swim. Play with the waist and shoulder adjustments as you are bobbing about. My minimum buoyancy mesh panel PFD’s are not going to save me if I’m unconscious in the water. Oh well.
Yeah, I’m going for a planned swim this year. Oh no, I have plans.

When we trip we always wear our PFD's for swimming. It is more relaxing to just float than have to work at staying afloat. They keep us from having to put feet down where the leeches live and generally keep us in the warmer upper layer.

I'm going to suggest to our closest outfitter that they could possibly put on a test a PFD day, they already rent a pool for beginner kayaking so why not PFD's too. They might be interested.
 
I always wear one when I'm taking the kids out, to set an example. However, on solo trips, or with trips with my buddy, I only wear one when the situation is looking iffy. Big waves or knarly rapids, life jacket is usually on. Sometimes I forget to wear my seatbelt too. I'm badass like that.
 
I'd always thought and assumed that inflatable vests were worn by powerboat fishers too macho and lazy to wear real PFDs. I had no idea what Search & Rescue Techs wore. For years I assumed the inflatables were gimmicky, and a temporary band-aid fix to a life and death situation. I'd never seen them in any outfitters or outdoor stores, and so assumed away. That was then.
I grew up having to wear (even while whining) a key hole vest while boating. I thanked God when older cousins stopped tying the straps looped under my crotch. Or were they just playing pranks? Anyway, these gave way to tooby poofy bulky vests; I still whined and hated them. Only when I eventually started canoeing did I come across the slightly slimmer vests which are still used as rentals by outfitters. When I finally purchased our own I opted for the minimal white water style for greater arm movement and comfort. We're more likely to put them on and keep them on if we're comfortable, which is 90% of the time. I'm wearing less floatation, so I might be less safe, but I no longer whine. The inflatables look interesting.
Here's a question: Would anyone consider taking a spare PFD? Sensible? Overkill?
 
It used to be that we only had to wear PFD's when running to the next spot in tournament fishing. That was awhile ago and I know the Bassmasters in the USA now require every angler to wear an inflatable at all times during an event. Consider that my boat with only a 150 on it would run at 67 mph. Some of the big boys could run in the low 80's and as boats and motors got bigger, PFD's became mandatory, the inflatables were the choice since they did not interfere with the anglers and were more likely to be worn. Mind you, none were ever really tested to see what happens when you get thrown out of a boat doing 80 mph.

Got some serious air once when we hit a cruiser wake at speed in my friends 20 foot Astro with 200 Merc. Came down sideways but stayed in the boat. Much worse has happened to others.
 
"Consider my boat with only a 150 on it would run at 67 mph."
In the good old days my aunt or cousins would putt putt down the lake in an outboard at night with a handheld flashlight over the bow. Not all small craft had navigation lights, so a little common sense prevailed. They didn't trust boaters running without any lights at all (or common sense), hence the flashlight. I'm not a fan of speed, least of all on the water. Our son-in-law treated his parents-in-laws to a moderate speed double tube ride. It was fun in the sun till he "opened her up to show us what she could really do." I gritted my teeth in a fake grin and wondered if the water was as hard as it looked as we skimmed along, and would it hurt if we wiped out? It was. And it did. His mom-in-law still has a check mark in the naughty column under his name. She hurt for a week. I've been offered and given run-abouts in fast looking boats. I most always decline, and choose to sit fairly stationary on the dock.
I love boats, but prefer the putt putt speed.
 
For 10 years I've used a Kokatat SeaO2 hybrid PFD on flat water. It has 7.5 pounds of foam flotation, which floats me, and it can be inflated up to 22 pounds. The inflation can be done with a CO2 cartridge, which I removed as an unnecessary gimmick, or by about 10 puffs on an air tube. I've never puffed it up except a few times on long crossings.

The PFD is much lighter and more comfortable than the typical 16 pound foam PFD in the USA. It also has enough pockets for me, especially after I got rid of the CO2 cartridge. I got it for about $140 but it now seems to be much more expensive.

In the AmSouth lots of people go PFD-less on warm inland waters, especially when using SOTs, or use the fully inflatable vests. The latter is what I would get if I lived there full time.
 
Anything that requires operator assistance to provide flotation is inherently unreliable.

I've used a variety of PFDs. The most comfortable one I've ever used is an old style Seda with flotation blocks in channels. The channels enable them to breathe a bit, and they're so comfy I forget I'm wearing it.
 
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