Not my cup of tea

[Paddlinhal]

What do you think of planning a 30 day canoe trip, bring 32 days worth of lovingly dried and packaged food, then getting stuck with a couple of folks who want to paddle like crazy every day, never stopping to look at anything, no muckle-ups, nothing, just paddle all day every day. Then getting off the river a week early and chucking all that food in the trash (well OK, given to the locals) so you don't have to fly home with it?

 

[recped]

Been there......what did I do? I make sure I am able to travel completely self-supported even on a trip where I start out with others. If my companions insist on doing this sort of thing I let them take off on their own and enjoy the rest of my trip in solitude.

If you are wondering, this HAS actually happened.

 

[yellowcanoe]

Why? Not not my cuppa either.. They have a right to paddle the way they want to but not in a group.. Its part of the reason I prefer to know everyone in the group and with some groups that is hard.

I have no idea of how they think.. I was with a hiking group that wanted to set speed records in the Grand Canyon and Canyonlands. I wanted to take pictures of flowers and study the geology as I had a field guide.
Noticing may come with age..It is I think a worthwhile hobby.. Its very possible you won't get back to the area that you are racing through so why not enjoy it?

 

[Guest]

Sounds like people who were more in a hurry to “get it over with” than enjoy their time on the river.

I am reluctant to even do an overnighter with anyone I have not paddled with before; 30 days would be out of the question.

 

[Alan Gage]

As with others that's a big reason I paddle solo. I can be that guy that wants to just paddle hard all day. And I can also be that guy that decides to take a 2 hour break, or half day break, or an all day break. I like traveling on my own schedule and it can be quite erratic. I'm selfish and I want to do what I want when I want to do it.

I can imagine that was a very frustrating experience.

Alan

 

[TrailBlaser]

This summer I did a canoe trip with someone (my daughter and son-in-law) for the first time in 17 years. The last time I took a trip with someone was with her, when she was 7 years old and sat on the floor of my canoe as I paddled us into a wilderness area in the Adirondacks. It has been solo since then, primarily so I can paddle, fish, camp, hike and take photos as I please. That being said, I would eagerly go again with them, my family members or friends, but, as always, I would build in zero days to pace the trip so there is time to relax and enjoy the area we're traveling through.

 

[yknpdlr]

One of these days (easy to say) some of my race team have said with me that we would like to take 'tourist time" to paddle down our race route on the Yukon. Maybe take a couple of weeks to travel the 1000 mile route we have twice raced in a voyageur canoe, then taking only 6 days. I have a a few (too few) good photos taken during the race, but would really enjoy taking the time to get some real high quality select photos of interesting sections we always see and already know about , e.g. "faces of the Yukon" rock outcroppings, Calico Bluff, and other areas where we are usually too busy paddling hard.

Interesting that you mention the food. For the first 1000 miler in 2009 the organizers required 20kg of food per person (times 7 paddlers in our voyageur canoe). Long story short, I home dehydrated most of it and we ate only about 1/4 of what we had to carry and no one went hungry. At the end most came back home with the canoe, and got little used while camping near home before it got too old.

 

[sweeper]

SOLO!

I don't and have never understood the speed thing, especially when it cuts down on the number of days before I go home. I like to plan for short days and to get my route done in the maximum amount of time.

 

[Gerald]

Paddlinhal, personaly I have had this experience just once and it's been mostly solo since then. I find that some young people and first timers seem to be like the people you describe in your post. In MHO these people tend to be uncomfortable about their first journey and it's eventual conclusion and it's that insecurity that they feel that makes them hectic. Some hiking, fishing, contemplating, reading and just relaxing are a must for me and the few people I like to travel with. I treat each journey like it's my last one.

Gerald

 

[ppine]

Putting together a crew is the hardest part of any canoe trip. I usually do week long trips or around 5 days. It is hard to find competent paddlers that are confident and easy to get along with. People need to have similar styles or be really flexible. Last year we did not do any river trips for the first time in years. I am going to a solo boat and plan to go with my brother. We get along good especially with the separation of paddling our own boats.

I will accept people with minimal experience if they are good outdoor people, know how to cook or have other skills and can get along with a group. We don't do anything hard now.

 

[dougd]

As long as all boats were equally stocked with food/provisions/shelter I think I would have said I'll catch up to you! Like others I like to take my time when I can and enjoy where I am cause most times I will not be back. Sorry that happened Hal.

 

[alsg]

Wasn't the subject of routes and distances to be covered each day (subject to weather revisions) discussed and agreed upon, as a group, prior to setting off on a 30 day trip? This would let everyone know in advance what the expected pace of the trip was and the two "paddle all day guys" would have either had to adjust to the group schedule or stay home.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Wasn't the subject of routes and distances to be covered each day (subject to weather revisions) discussed and agreed upon, as a group, prior to setting off on a 30 day trip? This would let everyone know in advance what the expected pace of the trip was and the two "paddle all day guys" would have either had to adjust to the group schedule or stay home.

I agree with this. A group that is going to travel as an interdependent, shared responsibility group must have rules or at least guidelines -- importantly including pace and daily distance -- and a leader who will make stop-go and other decisions when necessary. There should also be an understanding as to whether part of the group can ever break off, faster or slower, and go their own way. Breaking radically off the group pace obviously can't work if everyone is dependent upon each other for shuttles at the end of the trip.

I'm the kind of person who likes to maximize my paddling time and minimize my camp time. That's because I love the act of paddling and affirmatively dislike most camp chores. For that reason, I always travel totally self sufficient with gear and food for myself in the event it's okay for me to take off solo. If I need someone else's vehicle for the shuttle, or if I'm one of the shuttlers, I just make darn sure I arrive at the takeout on time, or await at the takeout until everyone else arrives.

Mostly, I just paddle solo from the get go. It greatly simplifies just about everything.

 

[Canotrouge]

We use to travel with people that were not on the same page as us.... No more, or at least not on long trips, on day trips it always happen, but on long trip we try to go with really small group(this year on the wind we were 3 canoes, 6 people, 3 of which were me my wife and daughter and the other 3, her sister, our brother in-law and our niece), and with people that think somewhat the same way we do, like on this year 17 days down the wind river in the Peel water shed, the trip is only 300km, most people take 10-14 days to complete we tool 17 staying sometime 3 nights at the same camp and sometime traveling only an hour and a half to the next camp! We don't travel fast we don't travel light, but we sure enjoy our awesome food and luxury items!

Even then with the small group of really close relative sometime decision making was a bit of a struggle... But I learned over the years to let go, make life easier on me!

Life is too short to race to the finish!

 

[ppine]

A few years ago with had 8 people on the Willamette River in Oregon. A great trip but with 6 boats it was like herding cats. They did not stay together no matter how many times I asked them. We had a capsize in a dangerous spot and I was there with a throw bag. We went and looked at what happened and the rookie paddlers could not understand why sweepers are so dangerous. It created some hard feelings which some people can't seem to get over. I feel a strong sense of responsibility for people's safety, and do not negoitate much about wearing life jackets, scouting rapids and staying together.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

Life is too short to race to the finish!

That's not the reason people like me would rather paddle than camp. You're likely thinking of an A-to-B river trip, where there's no place to go other than downstream to the takeout.

In contrast, on a big lake or a series of interconnected lakes with many routes, the let's-keep-paddling person (like me) may want to explore the other shore, those islands out there, the connecting streams, and some short-portage-away lakes that are not on the trip itinerary -- which itinerary is usually calibrated to the slowest paddlers in a group. I have no interest in preparing meals, cooking, processing wood or washing dishes, because those are the things I do every day of my life when I'm NOT PADDLING -- the daily routine I'm escaping FROM.

By spending as little time in camp as possible, I'm not racing; rather, at my often lollygagging pace, I'm enjoying additional paddle time to watery places that the rest of the group will never see on their route. As they sit and putz around, wasting valuable vacation time (in my opinion), under a bunch of trees in a small space with a lot of bugs . . . and tolerating in close quarters each other's annoying human habits, like gabbing and farting and drinking, which I also prefer to vacation from.

I can't speak for why others may not like a group pace or milieu, but as I said, other than day trips or simple one-route A-to-B river trips, I long ago decided that going solo is much simpler, and also provides the extemporaneous flexibility that I value far, far more than structured group activity.

 

[Paddlinhal]

Ha! A lot of votes for solo trips. Alas, my wife gives me a lot of freedom but does not want me going solo - despite the argument that my partners will probably be the ones to get me in trouble. Anyway, the choice to go solo should be from the outset, not halfway through a trip where we settled on a group size for safety reasons - like grizzlies, who tend to pick on single people and avoid groups. And to be interesting, a trip should present some surprise obstacles, and in this case it was group dynamics. I learned from it. Would have been nice to explore some of the side canyons and stuff though.

 

[Guest]

Ha!lot of votes for solo trips. Alas, my wife gives me a lot of freedom but does not want me going solo - despite the argument that my partners will probably be the ones to get me in trouble.

Hal, I know some of your frequent companions, and like mine they are likely to you in trouble. Memorable trouble.

In my initial response I neglected to say how sorry I was that a near bucket-list trip in the far north went unexpectedly south. I am sure the prep was extensive and the costs high; it’s not like a long weekend close to home that didn’t work out as planned.

I hope you can still, after reflection, manage a trip report. I’d like to know more about the getting there where and how and with what boats and shuttle and etc.

And to be interesting, a trip should present some surprise obstacles, and in this case it was group dynamics. I learned from it.

Group dynamics can make or break a trip. It is not as much planning or pre-trip discussion as it is personalities and unexpected wilderness idiocentric peculiarities.

There are but a handful of people outside family who I know I will mesh well with on a trip, even on a short trip.

I do appreciate the change in group dynamics on a “variegated” trip, where the collective group changes from day to day. The best and most memorable/enjoyable of those have been “group” trips where I had a night or two alone, was joined by companion X & Y, then later by companion Z, then the group dwindled to Z & Y and finally just to me again all by myself.

The arrivals and departures keep things hail-well-met, changing the dynamic, and I get some precious alone time on either end.

 

[Big Al]

Back in the late 80s I was leading a caving trip. A couple of new students tagged along. I told them I didnt know exactly where the cave entrance was but they could come along and help find it. All I had was longitude and latitude and a topo map. This was pre-GPS. The entrance was a glorified ground hog hole that someone had dug open 3 years prior. Since the cave was found, the hillside had been logged. We tramped around in neck deep brush and tree tops for about a half hour. I think one of the newbies was nervous to begin with and this feeling of being lost or not on track pushed her over the edge. She had pretty much a melt down. I abandoned the search and walked 10 minutes back to the cars. That ended the trip. From then on I reserved ridge walking (searching) to known entities. You have to know who’s on your trip.