Lightweight Food Pack

[Black_Fly]

I'm getting long in the tooth and trying to make sure my kit is light so I can keep on tripping with my dog, since he enjoys it so much. I've been using bear cans for several years, but they are relatively heavy considering that I'm shaving ounces off my other gear. Anyone have an lighter alternative? I have hanged packs, but transitioned away from the practice after seeing damage caused to trees in frequently used campsites. Maybe I'll have to use that approach again in a gentle way.

 

[frozentripper]

Ursacks are said to be light and said to be bearproof, at least against claws, maybe not against the crushing and stomping that a bear will do with it's front paws while trying to get in.

I'm an old geezer myself, and in all my years spent goofing off outdoors, have never seen a tree branch that was killed by rope damage... porcupines yes, they will eat the bark and green cambium layer, girdle branches and kill them.

But rope hangs should only strip bark from the top surface of a branch, leaving the lower surfaces intact and able to transport sap out to leaves so the branch stays alive. Maybe I haven't seen much and since I avoid crowds on canoe trips the damage hasn't been bad enough.

Older trees lose their lower branches anyway, this is one on the characteristics of old growth forests, no lower branches remaining, and good luck throwing a rope way up there into the upper canopy in old growth forests. Which aren't all that common around here, because of all the losses created by the logging that went unregulated for two hundred years and which we've got to live with to this day... well, never mind, before I forget what this thread was about, Ursack might be an option.

 

[Iskweo]

30 litre barrel. Get a rucksack that it will fit into the main compartment. Barrel harnesses are ok too in some cases but my way is much more cost effective. Yes I do have a 30 litre with a store bought harness...its ok. I dont take a 60, as I had one and it tended to get too full and rather heavier than I like to carry. I try to keep my packs @ 30 lbs. I have had good luck with this setup.

Tie the barrel to a tree at night if you must.

Christine

 

[Odyssey]

Ursacks and barrels are both animal resistant to different degrees. If I really wanted to hang I'd rather hang the much lighter Ursack. If I didn't want to hang I'd rather stash the barrel. Likewise, if I really preferred the Ursack for tripping I'd hang it using a rope and carabiner (eliminating any branch rope burn). If I really preferred the barrel for tripping I'd prefer to stash it instead of hanging it.
I would be fastidious about food and container cleanliness regardless of chosen food container.
When I found myself at this crossroads of sack vs barrel I personally chose the hang-free barrel route. I compromised on the weight of barrel and harness. 30L is still a lot of volume for food, especially if you dehydrate as we have done. In the event we can reduce our food to 10L (from 30L) I'll strongly consider the sack. We have been reducing weight of all our gear, food included, but our food barrel might still be the heaviest pack we portage. It is not too heavy to portage but it is bothersome heavy to hang.
NOTE We trip where barrels are accepted as food containers. Be sure of the regs where you trip.

 

[Guest]

I use a ursack, the food is packed and stays in there till I need it. I also have a ratsack and use both when camping with my lovely wife. I double smellproof bag the food and hang a little away from camp app 5' off the ground. I use a camo outer rain bag over the bag.

 

[yknpdlr]

Learn how to rig the Marrison Bear Haul System. I use 75 feet of rope with two carabiners acting as pulleys. When you throw a rope over a branch, the only thing it has to lift is the rope itself with a single carabiner, thus causing no damage by friction to the branch. The only friction during lifting a heavy weight is in the carabiner. With it you can lift incredibly heavy food packs that you could never otherwise raise off the ground.
https://www.princeton.edu/~oa/training/bearbag.html

 

[yellowcanoe]

Tailor your choice for where you are going.. Learn multiple ways to stash food.. I think your camp cleanliess is important but not so much for you as for the next camper. Always pick a clean campsite. Trashed sites are more often visited by bears during your visit ( they are creatures of routine) even if you are fastidious.

Marison System is good for hardwood forests and those evergreens with sturdy side branches like some pines, For some reason the USFS at least in Ocala NF prohibits it. . Useless in the tundra or river basins where willows predominate and in Florida where there are too many tangles of vegetation with interlocking spindly branches.

Stash in little stick territory like the Taiga or northern Ontario.. Nothing will support your hang.

 

[Zac]

Other than making it relatively easy to haul a heavy weight up, the other benefit of a pulley system (or Marrison haul technique with carabiners) is there is no friction placed on the tree limb, other than the weight of dragging a single carabiner and of the unloaded rope itself. There is only static pressure, no friction on the limb caused by the lifting the weight of food.

Learn how to rig the Marrison Bear Haul System. I use 75 feet of rope with two carabiners acting as pulleys. When you throw a rope over a branch, the only thing it has to lift is the rope itself with a single carabiner, thus causing no damage by friction to the branch. The only friction during lifting a heavy weight is in the carabiner. With it you can lift incredibly heavy food packs that you could never otherwise raise off the ground.
https://www.princeton.edu/~oa/training/bearbag.html

Yukon beat me to this point. Twice. I'm going to make it anyway.

Check out Eric's 3:1 bear hang thread and video. I use a similar two pulley/one carabiner system and it does not damage trees. If you don't have pulleys, you can throw a carabiner or even a line with a loop on the end over the branch. Use this to support the hauling rope and you will not damage the tree. Use care when you tie your lines off to trees too. It might be easier to haul the load up with a loop on the anchor tree but this will damage the trunk. Lift the load before you start to tie it off.

Please use a system like this if you are going to hang. Too often in the BWCA I have found there to be no suitable hanging branches left because people have killed them by ripping paracord through the bark.

Obviously this doesn't work without a suitable tree. When no ideal branch can be found in wooded areas, you can always hang a line between two trees and hang from that line. Sometimes I do this just to keep the foodstuffs further away from the trunk of the tree.

I've seen plenty of people hang food right in camp. Even if a bear can't get to the food, the smell could attract them so why not hang a ways away? Last summer I hiked into a backcountry site in Glacier NP where they had separated and clearly marked cooking/eating, hanging, and tent areas. There were metal pipe structures to hang from. Don't fool around in grizzly country.

I do believe that the best defense against bears is keeping a clean camp as I have never had a bear stroll into camp. Knock on wood. Saw a bear swim the lake a hundred yards from camp in the BWCA a few years ago, but I wasn't worried about it coming in to camp as the blueberries were so thick we could have filled our canoes with them.

Never used a barrel but I think I'm going to get an Ursack soon. I normally carry food in a heavy duty (420d TPU) dry sack which has proved impervious to smaller animals and insects so far... but I don't see any reason not to replace it with an Ursack whether I hang it or not. When I finally do make a no-turning-back 30+ day wilderness trip, I will use a barrel because I think it is the surest guarantee that your food supply will not be ruined.

 

[Robin]

I like to use my Duluth Pack daypack to carry my food, I use two Sealine bags inside. I toss the Sealine bags into the alders or bushes along the shoreline away from camp, sometimes in two different spots if I get any bear vibes, and I bring the day pack into my tent for safe keeping. I have never had a critter touch them, but it's always a good feeling to see them where I left them come morning.

The Sealine bags have held up well for a long time, the daypack protects them from sun and wear. My Duluth Pack Daypack has seen many years of off season use as it was an overnight bag for work. It's been restored twice by the folks at Duluth pack. I like getting double duty from my gear.

I guess any pack would work, I'm partial to Duluth Packs so that's what I chose back when.

I can even portage with my other Duluth Pack on my back and the day pack on my chest, but I seldom do, kinda of risky.

I sometimes use a bigger Duluth Pack Wanderer with the Sealine bags if I need to carry a little more gear, it's in the front of the canoe here.

 

[Iskweo]

Nice rig Robin. This brought something to mind. I remember how my dad and my uncles dealt with the food issue in the old days and I imagine it was much the same for most of the oldtimers. You kept your food in a pack like Robin, although the york boat crews and HBC men would often use wooden barrels. More to the point....food was kept in camp.If a bear came into camp for the food ....you shot him, no messing about.
When I am out in the forestry....read, not the parks.....I follow the same logic. There is no shortage of bears here. I will be generous and give a warning banger, mostly because I dont want to deal with a dead bear. But if it comes back then it gets one in the boiler room. The only recent time we had an issue we had a bear swim out to our island campsite and we just egressed the area as I was not packing on that trip.

I realise not everyone can use this method but some days I just feel the world is missing the point.

Christine

 

[Odyssey]

I love the waterproofness of those Seallines. The durability of a canvas carry makes sense too.
Does anyone who uses the Ursack also use their OPSack liners for odour/waterproofing? Are they worth the extra $ and peace of mind?
I rely on Ziplock bags for the same reason as the OPSacks but maybe they're not as good, I don't know.

I'm one of those "follow the rules and no horseplay" kinda guys, which doesn't explain why I sometimes break the rules and goof off. So my opinion depends which side of the bed I rolled out of any particular morning. As per bags and barrels, hanging and stashing, I'm always on the lookout for different ideas. The simpler lighter odour/waterproof bags in a pack appeals to me. I wonder if my barrel love is just another one of my rules-crutches, like belt and suspenders.
MY wife and I are considering some short overnighter hikes (in bear country) so the alternative to barrels is on my mind.

 

[yellowcanoe]

My canvas all succumbed to mice.. Sometimes I did use to carry a Duluth Pack and they were my first packs.. Went down the Snake River in the Yukon with them and we were part of a party that had guns.. Shotguns.. Did have a bear in the food pack but he ran off without gun therapy( responded to noisy pot therapy).. We kept the cook area 1/4 mile from the eating area 1/4 mile from sleeping.. So there was separation of food and people.

Fish guts and food particles went in the water.. A practice I still do continue albeit trying never to have leftovers is the most responsible.

I have some fondness for canvas packs..less than I had before getting one swaying and pitching me off the corduroy in Wabakimi.. But it was full of fuel and pry bars and axes and mattoxes ( mattoxi?) Quite heavy a mass when it started swaying.

For you who like canvas Alder Stream Canvas ( Jane Barron . a local) makes nice canoe packs. My daypack is canvas and just perfect. I keep it inside with a mousetrap.

 

[MagicPaddler]

I love the waterproofness of those Seallines. The durability of a canvas carry makes sense too.
Does anyone who uses the Ursack also use their OPSack liners for odour/waterproofing? Are they worth the extra $ and peace of mind?
I rely on Ziplock bags for the same reason as the OPSacks but maybe they're not as good, I don't know.

Odyssey
Do this experiment. Buy a bag of beef jerky or dried fruit that comes in a reseal able bag. When it is empty put some moth balls in it and also put some in a zip lock bag then close them up tight. Let them both set for ½ hour then see what you can smell on each of them.
I can tell you not to put moth balls in a ziplock bag and put it in your food bag.

 

[frozentripper]

Ziplocks have never seemed to be very waterproof or smellproof to me... a plastic bag with the end doubled over and kept tightly closed with a rubber band seems better with less chance of being left partially open.

IIRC Hoop, when he posted over on myccr double bagged food in ziplocks and then kept those in an airtight barrel for something like thirty day trips, he might be around to comment at the wintertrekking website.

Speaking of smells getting out, I'm sitting here starving half to death trying to stay healthy on doctor's orders and I had to see Mem's baloney cake... sheesh, I can smell it all the way out here, with mouthwatering mustard too. And the spam frying didn't help, either... oatmeal is all you're gonna git, sonnyboy.

 

[Odyssey]

Thanks for the replies. Hmmm. Double bagging freezer Ziplocks are not as efficient at odour containment as I thought. Using them in a barrel might be minimum effort rather than OTT as I'd thought.

 

[MagicPaddler]

Use your own nose and compare double ziplock bags to jerky bags using moth balls. The jerky bags will let less odor out. Let them set for an hour or two to let the odor work its way through.

 

[Odyssey]

So I can blame you guys for me buying a hefty supply of jerky, just so I can do a smell test experiment. I like the sound of that.

 

[Alan Gage]

I did some research once on the odor stopping powers of zip-lock and opsack bags. What I remember coming up with was that neither of them were very good at blocking odors. The Opsack was better than a zip-lock but only because twice as thick. To really block odors you need foil lined bags (which jerky bags probably are).

That being said I'm happy with freezer weight zip-lock baggies inside a blue barrel. Being a vegetarian is a benefit in this regard since I'm not carrying foods with a lot of odor....like jerky.

Alan

 

[Guest]

To really block odors you need foil lined bags (which jerky bags probably are).

Probably why commercially made “good-for-20-years” freeze dried meals are packaged that way. But I doubt the odor retention re-seal-ability of the single zip on those bags.

I use rinsed out freeze dried meal bags for sealing up garbage before it goes in a second trash bag.

Actually, I use these freeze dry pouches thrice; most of freeze dried meals are more of that stuff than I want to eat in one sitting, so I augment the meal, putting half the freeze dry contents into a Zip-lock for the next dinner and rinse out the pouch for reuse the following day. And then rinse out the residual food odors again and use that pouch for double bagged trash.

That being said I'm happy with freezer weight zip-lock baggies inside a blue barrel. Being a vegetarian is a benefit in this regard since I'm not carrying foods with a lot of odor....like jerky.

Same here, lots of stuff in Heavy Duty or double sealed Zip-locks, segregated inside stuff bags in the blue barrel. Being an omnivore that includes some odor attractive foodstuffs, especially early on in a trip when I still have hard cheese, cured meats, chocolate, hard bread.

I can attest to one use in which regular Zip-locks work very well long term. On desert and coastal trips, and long roadtrips, I bring wet wipes. The plastic dispenser container they come in isn’t well sealed, plus it is way too big and half full of air.

I decant the wet wipes, or half of them, putting them at the bottom of a Zip-lock and rolling it over like a wet wipe stogie. And then I put that stogie Zip-lock in another rolled over Zip-lock.

I usually bring some excess home, and then tend to decant a supply of new wet wipes in fresh baggies before subsequent trips. I have a collection of bagged wet wipes, some at least a couple years old, including one that lives with some toiletries in the tripping truck. All of them are still moist.

 

[Bothwell Voyageur]

Human noses are just not up to the task. I've seen plenty of demonstrations that animals can smell through almost any packaging. Ziplocs are plain polyethene. Modern long life bags (such as Opsacks are a sandwich of multiple plastics but when tested sniffer dogs have been able to detect drugs in these. Maybe hybrid mylar (it's not foil) bags sealed with a heat sealer would work if you were meticulous about cleanliness so that you didn't transfer any odour to the outside but unless you are operating under space-lab clean room conditions this is highly unlikely.

My dog can smell a mouse under a foot or more of snow and dirt and she'll quickly tell you where you stashed the beef jerky.