help me pick a flatwater tandem

[colab]

I introduced myself in the Introductions section, and mentioned I'm looking for a new canoe to replace my Old Town Guide 147. I've been keeping my eye on local, and nearby States' Craigslist and came up with a few leads, the best of which so far is a used Wenonah Solo Plus in Tuffweave in the next State over.

I'm traveling out of State next week for a couple weeks so I won't be able to pick up anything until mid-May, but when I get back, the lakes might be unfrozen. Although I have paddled some rivers, mostly Class I or maybe 2 in my Guide, I've decided I want a flatwater boat. I'll add a river boat in a couple years if I decide I need one, but I'd rather not compromise with an all-purpose boat.

I'm looking for a tandem that I will sometimes solo. My typical load is 330 pounds total. Typical water is small alpine lakes around 100-600 acres.

I have a pretty good idea of what will work well. I think it will work better to have a boat at least 16 feet long, perhaps a bit narrower than the Guide's 38" beam, and without any rocker.

I could speculate about some ideal boat, but practically speaking, I either need to get lucky and find it for sale used somewhere within a day's drive, or order it and pay freight. There are essentially no outfitters near me that stock canoes.

I'm wondering what's a practical alternative to the Solo Plus. The ask on that is about $1600. The Wenonah Adirondack might be a better boat (I don't know, maybe you can recommend an even better one?) , but what's the best way to acquire this? Am I going to pay a few hundred bucks for freight no matter what? Sorry I don't know how to buy such a big thing where the cost of transporting it such a high percentage of its value. Typically things that big are worth far more than their shipping costs, like cars, grand pianos, powerboats, or a Wurlitzer band-organ.

 

[Alan Gage]

Do you have a roof rack? Start checking Craigslist for areas you'll be traveling through while out of state.

As for what to buy there are so many options out there I hardly know where to start; especially if looking for used. If you're really set on getting something that can be solo'd as well you're probably looking at 16.5' or under. Something like the Bell Northstar or Mad River Malecite. I've owned a Northstar and it was fine to paddle around solo when empty but a total PITA if any wind was blowing. Loaded for a trip probably wouldn't be so bad. You can solo about anything if the wind isn't blowing. I know options are limited out there but I'd just keep an eye open for something in the ballpark at a good price.

If you want zero rocker you're probably looking at something like older Wenonah designs. Pretty much everything nowadays has at least some rocker.

You're probably wondering about shipping costs. I recently shipped a boat from Iowa to Connecticut and the cost was $300 with me driving quite a ways to meet the driver at another scheduled pickup location and the buyer, I believe, did the same out East. I used KAS transport.

Alan

 

[memaquay]

I'd pick this up right away if i was in the area

http://www.canoetripping.net/forums/forum/classifieds/classifieds-aa/63815-for-sale-1920-old-town

 

[yellowcanoe]

I'd pick this up right away if i was in the area

http://www.canoetripping.net/forums/...-1920-old-town

Yep. Steve is in Ohio. If you talk to him you can probably arrange for transport by most likely KAS

 

[colab]

I have a roof rack, but I prefer to use my trailer. I'm not taking either one traveling though. I'm pretty sure the canoe will be over the carry-on size for Delta.

I've written Steve to see about that one though.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

Along with the models Alan suggested, you might also put the Wenonah Escapade on the list. That boat has been sold with a third seat for solo, as has the Malecite. Not sure about the Northstar, but one can always add a seat or a kneeling thwart. Those three boats would be on the top of my list for what you describe, and are not especially rare on the used market (as canoes go).

 

[deerfly]

I have a Swift Algonquin 16 (33" WL, nominal 1" rocker) in expedition kevlar that I paddle solo a lot. For its size and being a designed tandem I don't find it particularly difficult to paddle solo unless like Alan mentioned when lightly loaded in windy conditions. It is what it is as the saying goes.

Not sure what your idea of a "deal" is, but in terms of worth, the rule of thumb is:

If it fly, floats or fornicates (censored) its cheaper to rent....

There's two listed here at the moment: http://algonquinoutfitters.com/used-canoes/

 

[colab]

I've got an RFQ into KAS. We'll see how much they need to get a canoe to me. Ohio is something like 2200 miles from me. Algonquin is closer to 3000 miles. I hate to spend all my money for the boat just on moving it.

 

[Alan Gage]

I'm sure some BWCA outfitters still have outfitter canoes left from last season to sell. They'd be closer than Algonquin.

Alan

 

[yellowcanoe]

The trouble is Colab is in California.. Still a big trip.. Unless you have a reason to go to the BWCA like a ..trip! Watch Paddling.com classifieds if you aren't already.. Sometimes boats do pop up your way..
There are a number of good flatwater daytripping tandems.

There is a nice Stowe Mansfield Canoe in Galena
https://reno.craigslist.org/boa/6098674252.html

Older model but seems in decent shape.

 

[Alan Gage]

California: https://oregoncoast.craigslist.org/b...6.html?lang=tl

Montana: https://kalispell.craigslist.org/boa/6047184828.html

Alan

 

[yellowcanoe]

2120 miles round trip for that Kalispell boat... distances in the West are certainly not short even to neighboring states. Reminds me of a story of a friend dragging canoes to Brownsville Texas from Wisconsin. He got to the Oklahoma Texas border and said "yippee" almost there. Not. He was just halfway.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

If it fly, floats or fornicates (censored) its cheaper to rent....

Depends on how often you intend to employ it.

I have seen some pretty nice tandem canoes for sale in California over the years. Just have to be patient....and quick to pounce.

 

[Guest]

Scattered responses.

the best of which so far is a used Wenonah Solo Plus in Tuffweave in the next State over.

Nice boat. I think of it more as the Solo Minus. “Tandem or sometimes solo” does make for a lot of compromises. A truism I once read about buying a canoe, “Pick a boat best suited for what you will be doing 90% of the time”.

If you are really 50/50 solo/tandem prepare to accept some compromises that make it not the best hull for either use. If you are 70/30 in one direction go with the 70% use; you’ll be happier 70% of the time.

I'm traveling out of State next week for a couple weeks so I won't be able to pick up anything until mid-May, but when I get back, the lakes might be unfrozen.

As Alan suggests, if you travel with a roof rack and a “device”, bookmark the Craigslists along your route or near your destination. A wider net catches more fish. I travel to the Carolinas regularly and have bookmarks from Richmond VA south to near Georgia.

I'm looking for a tandem that I will sometimes solo. My typical load is 330 pounds total. Typical water is small alpine lakes around 100-600 acres. I have a pretty good idea of what will work well. I think it will work better to have a boat at least 16 feet long, perhaps a bit narrower than the Guide's 38" beam, and without any rocker.

A Solo Plus would be mighty close spec wise to what you describe, especially the “sometimes solo”, and would easily handle that weight. At 16 6 it is a bit longer than you need solo on small alpine lakes, and depending on the carry in to said lakes the Tuff Weave version at 54 lbs could be less weighty.

Back when I spent a lot of time high in the Rockies (make what you want of that declaration) I lusted after a 13 or 14 foot composite solo or pack canoe, one that I could carry to some of the more inaccessible lakes. I made a cheap OT Pack work at 33 lbs, but I always wished it weighed less (and was less of a pig to paddle). That of course would be near useless tandem.

I'm wondering what's a practical alternative to the Solo Plus. The ask on that is about $1600.

$1600 is more than I have ever paid for a used canoe, or ever will, but a new one is $2400. My usual seller’s rule of thumb on good condition used canoes is about 2/3 of retail new (accept a little dicker or throw in some gear as needed), so the Solo Plus is in the reasonability ballpark.

There are bunches of practical alternatives. Most of them are unicorns on Craigslist. Even a composite Solo Plus doesn’t come up much. A UL kevlar Mad River Malecite. A Bell Morningstar (with some thwart removal for solo use, in layup but RX). On the west coast you may be more likely to find something from Clipper or Hellman.

Both are Canadian, but Clipper at least has a US distributor presence in the NW. Both have been making quality composite canoes for enough years that used ones may be less unicorny out on the left bank.

Folks more familiar with those west coast brands make be able to suggest something suitable from Hellman or Clipper to keep an eye out for:

http://hellmancanoes.com/canoes/

http://www.clippercanoes.com/canoes/

I can’t speak to Easy Rider; I have never seen anything really appealing from them, and don’t know what other west coast composite manufacturers there may be.

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

I'll give three answers.

1. In the other thread, you say you are 140 lbs. and your wife is 100. You paddle mostly day trips on very small Sierra lakes. You already have an OT Guide 147, which is a 14'-7" x 38" x 82 lb. tandem that you say is really too much boat for you. You haven't mentioned budget. In your situation, I'd be thinking of getting two very light pack canoes like Hornbecks instead of an additional tandem.

But you claim a need for a typical load capacity of 330 lbs.! This doesn't compute. Unless it's due to the dog you mentioned in your other thread. Are you wanting to tandem and solo with an 80-90 lb. dog? This is highly relevant. If so, I guess pack canoes might not work. I'll defer to the other paddlers here who subscribe to canoe-with-dogs derangement syndrome to answer that question.

So . . . back to tandems.

2. What the Ontarions here may not realize is that they typically drive past 24 times more water bodies in 24 minutes of driving than you pass in 24 hours of driving in your Cal-Neva desert basin. You are therefore severely limited in access to canoes. So, you've got to take what you can get.

I'm assuming you are within driving distance of an REI. There, you can buy (or order) a new OT Penobscot 164, which has minimal rocker, and is narrower and lighter but longer than your Guide 147. I'm not sure whether this satisfies your objectives or not.

3. The Wenonah Solo Plus, which I've not personally paddled, has been around a long time, is pretty popular, and has lots of reviews and articles about it on the internet. It may work very well for you. It has no rocker and is reputed to be relatively fast and relatively difficult to turn unless heeled way over. It would probably work well as a tandem for two such lightweight adults. It probably can handle the weight of a big dog. It will surely be more tippy than your Guide 147, but that's a fat boat.

I'd very seriously consider it, since your used market is so small -- unless you have the money to buy and ship a brand ultra-lightweight canoe from a company like Swift, Wenonah or Western Canoeing. Test paddle it if that's feasible.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

Clipper canoes do show up on Portland Oregon CL pretty often. Maybe they sometimes make it down to California, but I see more Old Town and Mad River there in my searches (which I admit I haven't done in a while). Navarro is another brand that is more common on the west coast, but it's been on again and off again as a company.

 

[clemency]

Wenonah lists Mountain Hardware and Sports in Truckee on its dealer list. As I understand it, the prices on the Wenonah website are retail. I.e., you don't pay freight. Could be wrong, but that has been my experience.

 

[colab]

Yes, I'm 140, wife is 100, and my dog is about 90 lbs = 330lbs. If my wife doesn't come, my dog always does. So "solo" is me plus the big dog. The dog and I might be able to fit a larger pack canoe if it was well over 13', but the little packs 13' and under would be cramped and unstable when my dog stands up. His head is at about 32". My wife would do fine in a little pack canoe. She does fine in one of the little 8' kayaks my kids have. But in the canoe I can paddle for her. I don't really need another boat for her because she can use one of the kayaks and I can have one of my boys ride with me.

I haven't heard back from KAS yet on transport from Ohio.

I considered the Penobscot from REI. It would work for me if I could get it in Royalex, but in Poly it would be heavier than my Guide which at 82 lbs is too much of a risk for injury. It's fine when I can use the trailer and dolly, but I've carried it by myself too many times and don't need that risk.

I called Mountain Hardware and that looks like a great lead. It looks like just an ACE hardware store, but they when I talked to them they said they have several Wenonah's in stock. Prices sounded close to list. In kevlar and with some of the wood options they were on the high-end. It will be an all-day thing to drive there and back, but probably worth it to check out exactly what they've got.

I may be able to order custom, but they said it would have to come in via the custom boat-trailer service (probably KAS), and it might be some time before they have a full load.

The canoes they have in stock that I would consider are the Adirondack and the Spirit II. The others are fishing-oriented (wide beam or with a transom).

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

The OT site says the Penobscot 164 weighs 75 lbs., which would be less than your Guide. But it would still be much too heavy for me, even if I were 30 years younger. As you probably know, no canoes are made in Royalex anymore. I'd recommend a lightweight composite tandem if you can find one and afford it. Your back and shoulders and arms will thank you more and more as you age.

The Wenonah Adirondack looks like a very good candidate, especially if it's in a lighter weight layup. It's shorter and lighter than the Spirit II and seems to come with webbed seats rather than tractor seats, which makes it easier to sit or kneel and to paddle backwards from the bow seat. You don't need expedition or whitewater or hull dragging toughness for day tripping on small lakes. Those are the ideal venue for the lightest weight layups.

https://paddling.com/reviews/product/we-no-nah-canoe-inc-adirondack-1-canoe/

 

[yellowcanoe]

kind of a canoe saying " the lighter it is the more you will use it". I think your hardware store is great!