Canoe "pack boat" on craigslist

[27 ELKS]

If anyone is interested there is a posting for a canoe "pack boat" on Rochester, NY craigslist. It's in Amherst,NY according to the post. It states Length 12' 4," 27" beam and weighs 20 lbs. Asking $700 I don't know what the make is, but I'm sure someone here will know. I'm new to all this.

 

[yellowcanoe]

Looks in great shape. It is not a Placid or Swift.. It may indeed be a Slipstream. Does not fit the Adirondack Canoe Company's lineup
Of course I thought Hornbeck but those boats on that size have the back support a foam pad glued to the thwart.
My best guess is Slipstream
Turtle has the most experience with them It looks like a great buy.

 

[Guest]

I don't know who made it. it's not a slipstream. they only make a 10 1/2 and a 13. besides their boats are symmetrical. A mystery boat.

 

[Guest]

The stem treatment is different from anything I am familiar with; wood gunwales, no deck plates and a round section of ? covering the hull stems.

https://rochester.craigslist.org/boa/6102210363.html

If that is OEM it should be an indentifying outfitting mark.

I am thinking it has been re-gunawaled, and a nice job of it at that, which helps not in ID’ing the hull.

You can always ask the seller for the HIN, the first 3 letters should ID the manufacturer and from there it should be easy to whittle down the model.

 

[yellowcanoe]

The stems have been finished with auto door edge trim. Rubberized. Someone's been to Paul's shop. That's what he used on my DragonFly. But Colden doesn't make pack canoes.
I suspect it's a redo of a Bell Bucktail

 

[Alan Gage]

My money is on a new small time builder trying to get his foot in the door. He says it's a new boat and that there are some cosmetic blems.

Alan

 

[yellowcanoe]

We all love a mystery. But I think that boat sold at WCHA Assembly about five years ago to someone sans the door guard. It was old but mint. I still think it has the DY stamp over all of it. As to a new builder.. well that part of NY State has a lot of canoe interest so it is possible

 

[Glenn MacGrady]

My money is on a new small time builder trying to get his foot in the door. He says it's a new boat and that there are some cosmetic blems.

I'd like history to little note and not record that I don't care who made this boat, but the word "new", twice appearing in the ad, bestows probability on Alan's guess.

The mystery to me is the grass.

 

[yellowcanoe]

Still mystifies me.. What does is the mention of new twice, a seemingly underpriced boat, And the term "pack boat". There are several canoe builders in the area including one pack canoe builder( and some five in NY State) so I would surmise that the builder would know the term "pack canoe". . Especially as this one is nicely outfitted. With the robust gunwales I wonder about that 20 lbs. The under 11 foot Hornbeck Lost Pond is 17 and saves weight by not having footbraces and a back band and has thin thin gunwales.

Id commission Turtle to go look but I am too cheap . Maybe it will show up at the Solo Canoe Rendezvous which really isnt that far away as far as canoe travellers go.

The other thing that bothers me is the gunwale treatment at the stems is more Swift than anything with that Colden door edge guard on it. Paul is on the other edge of Buffalo and has friends who sometimes help in the shop. Or as there are Swifts from Rochester ( where they are originally from) it could have been a prototype. The canoe building family is full of interrelationships.

Ok done nit picking. Coffee cup is empty

 

[27 ELKS]

Just checked, price lowered to $650.

 

[goonstroke]

...
The other thing that bothers me is the gunwale treatment at the stems is more Swift than anything with that Colden door edge guard on it. Paul is on the other edge of Buffalo and has friends who sometimes help in the shop. Or as there are Swifts from Rochester ( where they are originally from) it could have been a prototype. The canoe building family is full of interrelationships. ...

Does the door edge guard thing work well? I have this old kevlar Wenonah with mostly dead end caps, and I've been thinking I should do something about it, but bulky decks would be overkill.

 

[Guest]

Does the door edge guard thing work well? I have this old kevlar Wenonah with mostly dead end caps, and I've been thinking I should do something about it, but bulky decks would be overkill.

I am curious about that as well. It would helpfully eliminate trying to find the correct size and shape end caps to match the stem angles and gunwale profiles.

I wonder if that stuff is actually “car door edging” though. I have tried using typical auto parts store car door edging as blade guards for paddle tips and etc, and none of the stuff I have found bends a curve worth a dang, and is usually much thinner.

I suspect that stuff is actually cockpit trim edge used to cover the coming edge on kayaks.

http://topkayaker.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_137&products_id=1606

 

[Odyssey]

I'm the least qualified person to offer an opinion (but it's never stopped me before); I'd jump on this sale and install decks. Nice canoe, nice gunnels, unattractive stem/gunnel finish. Not a deal breaker though. I'd want to inspect it for blems or damage. Is this one of those "too good to be true"?

 

[Guest]

I'm the least qualified person to offer an opinion (but it's never stopped me before); I'd jump on this sale and install decks. Nice canoe, nice gunnels, unattractive stem/gunnel finish. Not a deal breaker though. I'd want to inspect it for blems or damage. Is this one of those "too good to be true"?

With wood gunwales I agree completely about a real deck plate or end cap. Even if just cutting a simple wood triangle and top mounting it with brass screws and finish washers, which is my preferred shop simpleton solution. I lack the precision skills to make an inset deck look good, and a top mounted deck is easier to remove, revarnish/oil/inspect and treat gunwale ends.

But synthetic decks are a different story, even the winky plastic end caps used by Wenonah/Bell/etc.

First the ^ angle needs to fit the stem angle, wide flare or narrow.

Then the shape of the molded deck plate/end cap tip needs to match the tip of the hull stem at the top. Think recurve (,
or vertical stem |,
or layout / .

Then add that the cross section profile of the deck plate/cap need to match the cross section of the outwale edge. Different manufacturer’s vinyl gunwales have a different cross section profile, with a box “channel” to accommodate the first 6 inches of molded gunwale.

Even with aluminum gunwales the outwale shape is different on a Bell than a Wenonah than a Mad River (Sawyer, Dagger, arrgghh!). Finding the right deck plate or end cap, especially from a defunct manufacturer, is challenge #1.

If you find one challenge #2 is not shouting “You’ve got to be f&*^%$% kidding me”!

$15 bucks each for a winky piece of molded plastic, akin to some corner guard that gets thrown away with equipment or machine packaging? $30 for two dollars worth of plastic verges on the obscene.

I don’t much like the looks of that cockpit coming stem edge treatment either, but the next best alternative might be to try DIY forming custom Kydex end caps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUVhAKXm254

I’d like to give forming Kydex a try someday, but I think using the kitchen oven might be a no no if I got caught.

 

[yellowcanoe]

Rosewood
http://coldencanoe.com/nomad.html

 

[Guest]

Rosewood
http://coldencanoe.com/nomad.html

Yeah, that too. It doesn’t take a very big/pricey of wood, even some decorative exotic, to cut out a small top-mounted deck cap for wood gunwales.

Whatever happened with the synthetic “zebra wood” end caps? Who was it that used those?

But any wood or wood simulation would look out of place with vinyl or aluminum wales.

 

[yellowcanoe]

Dymondwood is real wood.. Placid Boat works used that.
Its fancy plywood.

In this case it goes well with the snake pattern integrated gunwales. Looks like a snake head

http://www.answers.com/Q/What_is_dymondwood

 

[BWCA66]

I think it is worth the time and effort to close up the ends and make a nice inserted deck.

 

[yellowcanoe]

It may look better with an inserted deck but deck rot is a bug a boo.. Thats why Bell scuppered theirs. Any residual water is trapped in the ends without an escape route.

 

[BWCA66]

It may look better with an inserted deck but deck rot is a bug a boo.. Thats why Bell scuppered theirs. Any residual water is trapped in the ends without an escape route.

Don't disagree, need to make sure the deck sides and gunnels are sealed good before you install them and a small water escape route right at the end hidden under the brass doesn't hurt either.