Canoe construction material question.

[Roybrew]

I have been wanting to build a strip canoe for sometime now, and I was thinking of using local sawmill lumber. In this area of the country popular, red cedar, sassafras, black Walnut, cherry and oaks are the primary wood. Oak is definitely out. I was planning on using popular and maybe adding a little black Walnut and cherry for decoration.

Now the questions, what difference does it make what type of wood you use, other than the weight issue, because it will be glassed inside and out?

When people mention a final coat of varnish, is it the true varnish or is this a general term for coatings including urethanes.

Thanks in advance for any input or advice.
Roy

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[latremorej]

Others know much more than I do here but for what it's worth, I don't think that it will make much difference as far as the actual strength goes as the wood only serves as an "i" in the I-beam and the glass gives you the strength. The real difference will be cost, weight, and "workability." Depending on the length and volume of your build, the boat could weigh in as much as 30lbs more comparing western red cedar to say, white oak. Maybe even more. The difference between a 50lb boat vs an 80lb boat is HUGE, even if you're not carrying it.

Jason

here is a link to a wood weight calculator

http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/calculators/calc.pl

 

[alsg]

Weight and workability is important, as is impact resistance. But another huge factor is "elasticity." The strips need to bend and twist quite a bit to follow the contours of the hull. Some woods will be very difficult to bend/twist and some will break/splinter. Cedar is a good compromise. Relatively light weight, decent impact resistance, and will take quite a lot of bend and twist without failing. Have fun!

 

[Jim Dodd]

can you find any Cypress ? I've heard a lot of Floridians use it.
Good advise from others !

Jim

 

[Cruiser]

As stated the wood core for a canoe provides the substrate to keep the glass layers in position ... the wood needs to have flexibility, strength and low compressability to be successful in the application.

Wood also provides the aesthetics of a wood boat, poplar isn't a very "pretty" wood and is not particularly good for smooth finishes. It will do the job, just not as well as some other woods commonly used for the purpose.

In a typical boat, WRC would contribute about half the final weight of a carefully executed hull .... at a cost of roughly 20% of the building budget, IMO this is not a good place to be looking to economize ... if you start off compromising the look, weight and finish of the final boat, you are making the hill a lot harder to climb than it needs to be. So, while the hardwoods mentioned will technically do the job, as mentioned, at some point weight becomes an issue .... adding so many pounds before you start is likely not a real good idea.

As far as the varnish, everyone has a favourite, mine is Epiphanes, the need is to have UV protection for the epoxy, so make sure whatever you pick has UV inhibitors and a high solids content, there are quite a few good ones and you will probably get lots of other brand names. Like epoxy, the varnish will have a few quirks and after using it on a few coats, you will get the hang of the product you pick and will end up with a nice finish in the end.

Brian

 

[stripperguy]

First boat I ever built was done using white pine...it was a decent choice, worked easy, didn't break the bank and looked nice too.
I've also built with redwood, didn't like it...brittle, heavy, dark.
By far my favorite wood for a hull is western red cedar, also happens to be the lightest weight wood that's practical for boat building. Smells good, too!!
I do have a boat building buddy that used Aspen, but he only did so since he had the trees and the saw mill. It was only Ok, IMO.
As stated upthread, the wood is just an attractive and effective spacer for the glass. As long as it doesn't fail in shear, any wood will do.

As for varnish, I'm also a firm Epifanes believer, been using it for over 20 years.

 

[Cruiser]

Just a minor point SG ...Northern White Cedar is a bit lighter than Western Red Cedar ... but I will concede it is not quite as available, I am lucky in that I have access.

Brian

 

[stripperguy]

Just a minor point SG ...Northern White Cedar is a bit lighter than Western Red Cedar ... but I will concede it is not quite as available, I am lucky in that I have access.

Brian

I just looked it up, about 10% lighter, I wouldn't say that's minor!
Is it as pleasing to the eye as WRC?

 

[Roybrew]

Wow! That's a lot of great advice. I'm going to chew on all this for awhile. Wood selection is a huge concern and large portion of cost. I couldn't thank y'all enough for your advice, it will be well taken. And when I do something stupid, which I'll probably do, I'll avoid posting anything about it...you'll never know.

Roy

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[Cruiser]

SG, this boat is mainly NWC, I like the look, good grain and colour variations .... the grain is nice as well.

Brian

 

[frozentripper]

Beauty canoe Cruiser... my stripper's also made with white cedar...









I got the idea for painting it after seeing Martin Step's photo below... it seems that the Winisk was made from a wood less colorful than WRC... white pine, basswood or white cedar..

White cedar's very easy to sand esp in the interior which was time-consuming. A harder and heavier wood would have resulted in some cursing for sure.





http://www.greenval.com/winisk.html

 

[Cruiser]

Nice to see you back FT .... missed your posts

 

[Roybrew]

Nice looking canoes! So if I build one, and it looks ugly, should I paint it? I've seen some nice paint jobs on canoes.

 

[stripperguy]

Mr Brew,
Please don't judge the beauty of a build by the outward appearance...There are so many factors, performance on the water, weight on your shoulders, satisfaction of building a functional piece of equipment, and lastly IMHO, aesthetics.
Besides, you would need an outside, uninvolved individual to assess the aesthetics...you, as the builder (and maybe artist) will focus on the perceived flaws. Ask any of us that have built time and again, you'll find most of us will dwell on the "imperfections", as if anything could ever be "perfect".

As for painting to hide an ugly hull, a painted hull needs to be extremely fair to look OK. A non-optimum finish on a wood strip hull will be less noticeable due to the color and grain distractions.

 

[DeniseO30]

You mentioned Cedar in your first post I would recommend you go with cedar for the strips, for the rails seats decks and stems Cherry is a very good choice and it's actually quite rot resistent not that it matters on a canoe, since they are not usually left out in the weather.

There are allot of variables on strip building boats. It could be argued the soft woods like cedar will give a better bite to the epoxy because it will soak into the pores and grain of the softer wood better than a tight grain hardwood.

I personally love mahogany and Cherry.
Ash and Spruce are generally used for out rails and in rails but almost nobody uses Spruce because of the cost and the unnecessary reason to save a few ounces of weight. Alaskan yellow cedar quickly became my second choice to Sitka spruce.

After the first to strip canoes we built and learning how difficult and expensive it was to get 16-18 foot long Cedar we just picked up Cedar from The Big Box store and ripped it into strips of random length.

Before you actually get into building a strip boat, I'd like to suggest you study the different ways of building with wood strips, bead and cove, square-edged, but also spend some time learning about cheater strips and how they can ease twist and bends as the strips make the turn of the bilge and come together at the bow and stern.

After 7 strip builds I made a personal choice that go with traditional wood canvas construction and restoration. with plans to get into larger boats also.
Everything changed after that my son lost interest somehow along the way we got into a 30-foot sailboat LOL


2 pics, the first is my very first solo canoe and the second is my 18 year old one off 15ft wood canvas. Lots of others in between nearly 25 years of canoe building and boat restoration

 

[memaquay]

I've built close to 30 strippers now, white cedar, red cedar and white pine being the main choices for strips. I really would like to build a cedar canvas canoe now, will start serious thought if and when I retire.

 

[DeniseO30]

I've built close to 30 strippers now, white cedar, red cedar and white pine being the main choices for strips. I really would like to build a cedar canvas canoe now, will start serious thought if and when I retire.

Wood canvas are all about the form because you basically have to build a canoe with three quarter inch square strips and metal rib bands to build a canoe.

of course the wood and bark canoes can actually built on the ground in the woods or by a river bank, some people have managed to do wood canvas without a form but I'm sure it would be very very time consuming.

 

[Abenakiregion]

A wood canvas canoe can be built on a form similar to a stripper. Without the solid wood and metal bands, the tacks have to be backed with a clinching iron. Much less involved, material wise for one or two builds, but a bit more work.
Dave

 

[DeniseO30]

Thought I said that... Irregardless it's a lot of work, even double work.

But this is about strip boats isn't it?

 

[Jim Dodd]

2 pics, the first is my very first solo canoe and the second is my 18 year old one off 15ft wood canvas. Lots of others in between nearly 25 years of canoe building and boat restoration

What design did you use for your first solo canoe pictured ?

Thanks !

Jim