What's a scratch worth?

tketcham · Mar 24, 2023

In some online classified ad websites I've noticed five or six canoes for sale that were purchased new in the past year or two. They each mention the canoe is in very good to excellent (like new) condition with just a few scratches. The asking price ranges between $600 and $800 USD below list price as of March 2023.

So, the question is, given the cost of a brand new canoe vs a used canoe: What's a scratch worth?

Edited: The $600 - $800 represents an average 15%-16% reduction from the cost of the new canoes and I'm assuming there's no (transferable) warranty.

Waterspyder · Mar 24, 2023

I think that depends on whether I'm buying or selling. If I'm buying the scratch is worth a urge discount in price (as I'd ask the seller about how he took care of the boat). If I was selling I'd say the scratch was minor and look how good the rest of the boat has been maintained.
OK, I'll admit I'm cheap and I'd be working to get the best deal.
But I think it really depends on what boat it is and the how available is a new boat of the same model.

Cruiser · Mar 24, 2023

Most people I know would realize a canoe will get scratched with use. Agree a discount on a new canoe, as you are paying for the privilege of putting those first scratches in the canoe. A used canoe should have a decent discount in the first place, so then it becomes a matter of the severity of said scratches ..... as a bargaining tool , I get that, but after a year of use you would never be able to tell what scratches belonged to who IMO.

Now on the practical side, I think the trend of seeing new canoes being sold off may actually increase as folks who bought during the pandemic realize they don't really like it that much and need to dump the investment.

Brian

Clint · Mar 24, 2023

Of coarse it depends on who the buyer is. I have found that some people flip out over scratches and other not so much. A recreationally paddler or a lake OC1 racer that wipes their boat down every time they get out of the water doesn't understand why or how someone even gets scratches on their boat. Won't even lay it down on the ground. Then you have people like me that barrel down shallow rocky rivers racing from point A to B. Will lay it down on grass but not dirt or rocks.

So it depends on what the boat is for and who is buying it.

Tryin' · Mar 24, 2023

I expect a used boat to almost immediately depreciate 10%. Like, before it even hits that water. After that, it's an function of age and condition. Three year old unit with surface scratches? Minimum 25% off. Gouges drop it quickly, just too many unknowns about hidden damage.

We are still in a period of high pricing as a residual effect of the 2020 and 2021 nature escapes. Those boats will come back to the market over the next couple seasons. Same with rental fleets: what was spoken for before the season even got fully underway will likely begin to take an off-season to unload. Manufacturers will see orders decrease as the used market flushes and will likely combat slow sales with various incentives and efficiencies.

Now, inflation will be an antagonist to simple year over year dollar pricing drops, but that may be offset by continued consumer stress.

tketcham · Mar 24, 2023

Supply and demand certainly has an effect, plus the time element. Want to sell it quickly? Drop the price.

If the canoe I really wanted was available used I probably would accept some superficial hull scratches if I could get it for 15% less, even without a warranty. Maybe.

So maybe the question should be:
"What's a warranty worth?"

billconner · Mar 24, 2023

When manufactures sell blems, what kind of discount? I think Souris River discounts around 15% but currently have no factory seconds listed. A sign of the market - they used to have several.

Clint · Mar 24, 2023

People talking about a warranty. I've never been that close to a new boat to even think about a warranty.

Why would you need one?

tketcham · Mar 24, 2023

Why would you need one?

Well, you bring up a good point about canoe warranties; they're not really necessary for the most part if you buy a canoe from a builder you know has a good reputation. Even their blemished canoes are sound purchases. And since a well built canoe will last for decades with good care and maintenance, a warranty is almost more of a legal formality.

So perhaps it is solely the scratches that make the difference between prices of new and lightly used? I think some people do find some comfort in knowing their new purchase has a warranty, unnecessary as it may be.

billconner · Mar 24, 2023

Roger that. Just 3 canoes, all used. (Well, I was close to a lot of new boats at Canoecopia.)

ScottS · Mar 24, 2023

Oh man, I am going to have to pay people a lot of money to sell my canoes to them.

tketcham · Mar 25, 2023

ScottS said:
Oh man, I am going to have to pay people a lot of money to sell my canoes to them.

What are you selling? I could use some extra cash. ;-)

I was just wondering because with the higher cost for a new canoe the initial mark down is starting to involve serious cash. I guess it's all relative.

tketcham · Mar 25, 2023

billconner said:
(...I was close to a lot of new boats at Canoecopia.)

Were the dealers selling the demo canoes at a discount?

Tryin' · Mar 25, 2023

tketcham said:
Were the dealers selling the demo canoes at a discount?

There were "show only" prices on just about everything in the building. 10-20% off was the norm.

tketcham · Mar 25, 2023

Tryin' said:
10-20% off was the norm.

So 15% or so isn't a bad discount for a nearly new used canoe. Warranty aside.

billconner · Mar 25, 2023

Yes, a lot of show specials at canoecopia.

I think it's difficult to order a canoe with your selections of colors and options and expect to get a discount, but if you can find one in a dealers stock, I suspect 5 to 15% is not unusual - or wasn't pre-pandemic and hopefully will return.

What's a scratch worth?

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