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Caution Fragile - To Paddle or not?

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So I had the opportunity to buy a Crozier canoe. It is a one off kevlar custom cruiser built by Crozier, beautiful work. It has been garage kept and in great shape. I originally got it to have sometime to race on flat water or clean rivers. Well here in my neck of the world those are far and few between.

I have been thinking about vacuum infusing a layer of 4oz glass on the bottom up to the water line. To help protect it from all the rock dragging and log jumping that there normally is involved in the races here.

Or does it just need to hang in the shop and only get used a couple times a year and get a different boat? I love paddling it, it is a dream to get in rhythm with your partner down the river in. We took first place in our local club race about a month ago in it.

Whats yall's thoughts?
 
I'm not familiar with your rivers but personally, being that I'm a procrastinator, I'd paddle it as-is and repair the damage as it occurred. If it appeared the stems were taking heavy damage I'd put down dynel skidplates and if it was readily apparent that the bottom of the hull was really getting beat up I'd think about putting down a full layer below the water line.

Regular 4oz glass isn't going to offer much in terms of abrasion resistance. S-glass would be better for that application.

I really enjoyed paddling 3x27 hulls. I found them quite comfortable to paddle even with newbies. Much more comfortable and easy to keep upright than a C1. It was so rewarding to put the hammer down and get a big jump in speed rather than wallowing in a big wave. Unfortunately I rarely ever found anyone to paddle tandem with.

Mine was a cedar strip built by Cal Stenso and weighed 27 pounds if I remember correctly. A friend and I ran it head-on into a submerged rock at 6+ mph (murky flat water on a dead calm day). It pretty much stopped us dead in our tracks and I don't know how we didn't capsize since we were both nearly thrown from our seats. Virtually no damage to the canoe, just a dent in the cedar stem.

Alan
 
I have never owned a new canoe or any other kind of boat.
They are made to be used.

Recently I bought a new Ram diesel. I had only had it for a week when it was time for a field trip in the woods at the 47 year forestry reunion in Washington State. Should I leave it in the parking lot and ride with someone else? Heck No. I drove the truck in the woods. It got some Washington pin stripes on the side which mostly came off. The roof has a couple of small scratches from branches. Boo hoo. It comes with the territory.
 
I'm not familiar with your rivers but personally, being that I'm a procrastinator, I'd paddle it as-is and repair the damage as it occurred. If it appeared the stems were taking heavy damage I'd put down dynel skidplates and if it was readily apparent that the bottom of the hull was really getting beat up I'd think about putting down a full layer below the water line.

Regular 4oz glass isn't going to offer much in terms of abrasion resistance. S-glass would be better for that application.

I really enjoyed paddling 3x27 hulls. I found them quite comfortable to paddle even with newbies. Much more comfortable and easy to keep upright than a C1. It was so rewarding to put the hammer down and get a big jump in speed rather than wallowing in a big wave. Unfortunately I rarely ever found anyone to paddle tandem with.

Mine was a cedar strip built by Cal Stenso and weighed 27 pounds if I remember correctly. A friend and I ran it head-on into a submerged rock at 6+ mph (murky flat water on a dead calm day). It pretty much stopped us dead in our tracks and I don't know how we didn't capsize since we were both nearly thrown from our seats. Virtually no damage to the canoe, just a dent in the cedar stem.

Alan
Yea it would probably help to know what the rivers are. Most of the time I train up in north Texas where I live and the rivers are mud bottom and generally deep enough. But will have lots of logs accross the river and treelimbs. We generally go upstream then back down to the start. From point A to point A. Then the races we do are in south Texas and the rivers there are shallower and rocky. So you have long standing pools then at the end a sharp turn with a drop and a rocky riffly section. Drag your bottom on the shallow and back into the next pool.

It would probably take one race to eat up the stems enough for repair if nothing was on them. I need to weight the boat but it is somewhere around the 30# mark. And would you use dynel on the whole bottom or just the s-glass?
Recently I bought a new Ram diesel. I had only had it for a week when it was time for a field trip in the woods at the 47 year forestry reunion in Washington State. Should I leave it in the parking lot and ride with someone else? heck No. I drove the truck in the woods. It got some Washington pin stripes on the side which mostly came off. The roof has a couple of small scratches from branches. Boo hoo. It comes with the territory.
ppine- I agree to a point. Same thing new truck and I use it for what it is for. But I am also not going to take it down a black diamond trail just to tear it up. I guess I could spend the money and put a lift on it, tires, new locker, winch and build a roll cage. Or buy a more suitable trail vehicle. Which would be better?
 
I have never owned a new canoe or any other kind of boat.
They are made to be used.

Recently I bought a new Ram diesel. I had only had it for a week when it was time for a field trip in the woods at the 47 year forestry reunion in Washington State. Should I leave it in the parking lot and ride with someone else? Heck No. I drove the truck in the woods. It got some Washington pin stripes on the side which mostly came off. The roof has a couple of small scratches from branches. Boo hoo. It comes with the territory.
I'm with you, I took my 3 week old Ram "midnight edition' to visit a friend who lives 3 hours from the end of the road, got some nice scratches and had a tree jump out and bite the passenger mirror hard (broke a lot more than the glass). I suspect it was collusion on Mother nature's part because at the same time another tree folded the driver's side in...
My only complaint is they redesigned the mirror and a new one won't be available until Xmas, everything else are just "battle scars"
 
So I had the opportunity to buy a Crozier canoe. It is a one off kevlar custom cruiser built by Crozier, beautiful work. It has been garage kept and in great shape. I originally got it to have sometime to race on flat water or clean rivers. Well here in my neck of the world those are far and few between.

I have been thinking about vacuum infusing a layer of 4oz glass on the bottom up to the water line. To help protect it from all the rock dragging and log jumping that there normally is involved in the races here.

Or does it just need to hang in the shop and only get used a couple times a year and get a different boat? I love paddling it, it is a dream to get in rhythm with your partner down the river in. We took first place in our local club race about a month ago in it.

Whats yall's thoughts?
Have you considered a second canoe?
I hate to send you down that rabbit hole but, sometimes, it's the most sensible option.
One canoe for paddling around lakes and one canoe for running rocky rivers.
I currently have five canoes, two kayaks and a few IKs. I wish I had money and room for more. You need the right tool for the job.
 
Have you considered a second canoe?
I hate to send you down that rabbit hole but, sometimes, it's the most sensible option.
One canoe for paddling around lakes and one canoe for running rocky rivers.
I currently have five canoes, two kayaks and a few IKs. I wish I had money and room for more. You need the right tool for the job.
Well I have 8 at the house right now. Between canoe trips, racing and multi-man racing I am starting to have a collection. Running out of room to put them all. Guess I need to pick what I want to do and sell the rest. LOL
 
And would you use dynel on the whole bottom or just the s-glass?
I've never used dynel on such a large area and would be concerned about how much weight it might add. It's a cloth that seems to drink a lot of resin to get it back to a smooth finish.

Alan
 
It is a one off kevlar custom cruiser built by Crozier, beautiful work.

Or does it just need to hang in the shop and only get used a couple times a year and get a different boat? I love paddling it, it is a dream to get in rhythm with your partner down the river in. We took first place in our local club race about a month ago in it.

Well I have 8 at the house right now.

In general, I don't believe in modifying and potentially uglifying a beautiful canoe. Especially one that is fit for its designer's intended purpose. And further especially if I have the interest and money to have several other canoes for other purposes.

Would you really paddle this canoe more in south Texas rocky rivers than you do in north Texas muddy rivers if you slapped a bunch of full hull fiberglass on it, given that you likely have other canoes to beat down south Texas rivers?

I'm in the camp of: use canoes for their intended purpose, get N canoes if you have N purposes, and don't fix anything until it's broke. I also hang on to boats I don't use, even when it makes logical and financial sense to sell them, because I become illogically and emotionally attached to them. All of which suggests you probably shouldn't take advice from a warped old canoe cultist like me—although, in my defense, I've never driven a new truck into trees.
 
Well I have 8 at the house right now. Between canoe trips, racing and multi-man racing I am starting to have a collection. Running out of room to put them all. Guess I need to pick what I want to do and sell the rest. LOL
I'm thinking someone needs to post a thread about storing multiple canoes.
In my neck of the woods, Northsta'rs in IXP and Wenonaha's in Tough Weave are becoming popular, but Royalex and T-Formex are still king.
I bought a used, fiberglass, Sawyer, earlier this year and I'm starting to think fiberglass has gotten a bad rap. Yeah, it's heavier than Kevlar, but it takes on more complex shapes than T-Formex and it's super easy to repair.
I managed to tear a hole, in a Kevlar solo, and repairing it was a real pain because you can't sand Kevlar. I'm all for an outer layer of something other than Kevlar, to make it easy to patch up.
 
Clint...I totally understand where you are coming from and know exactly what you are dealing with when paddling here in Texas. Are you thinking about this one for training purposes or racing, or both? I may have overlooked it, but is it a C1 or a C2? Upload some pictures of the inside and outside if you get a chance.

My initial response is to paddle it. I know a lot of times you can't see what is under the water, but if you want to take care of a potentially fragile boat, it will force you to take good cautious lines when you do see something in the water.

Many times, boat damage is a result of the paddler or paddlers getting into a situation that the boat can't take physically. I know one of the biggest things we deal with here is dragging the boat on/over stuff a lot which can take a toll. Just know where you are paddling and if you think it's a good idea to use that particular boat or not. For example, I would never take a "fragile" boat to the Neches Wilderness Race. That course is brutal and beats up boats and paddlers (though it is one of my favorite races). Sorry I missed your race this past weekend. Looked like fun.

If nothing else, hit some flatwater around you and get in your Crozier.
 
I'm thinking someone needs to post a thread about storing multiple canoes.
In my neck of the woods, Northsta'rs in IXP and Wenonaha's in Tough Weave are becoming popular, but Royalex and T-Formex are still king.
I bought a used, fiberglass, Sawyer, earlier this year and I'm starting to think fiberglass has gotten a bad rap. Yeah, it's heavier than Kevlar, but it takes on more complex shapes than T-Formex and it's super easy to repair.
I managed to tear a hole, in a Kevlar solo, and repairing it was a real pain because you can't sand Kevlar. I'm all for an outer layer of something other than Kevlar, to make it easy to patch up.
The shop has boats in it. They are leaned up on the fence. Stacked up on the back of the shop. Mine are there, some are there to get repaired........... list goes on. All different flavors are there. Aluminum for the aluminum state races. Fiberglass and Poly for tripping. Carbon, Kevlar for the racing boats. C1,C2,C3
This winter may work on a double sided 6 slot "tree" with a metal roof to hold all the outside boats.
Clint...I totally understand where you are coming from and know exactly what you are dealing with when paddling here in Texas. Are you thinking about this one for training purposes or racing, or both? I may have overlooked it, but is it a C1 or a C2? Upload some pictures of the inside and outside if you get a chance.

My initial response is to paddle it. I know a lot of times you can't see what is under the water, but if you want to take care of a potentially fragile boat, it will force you to take good cautious lines when you do see something in the water.

Many times, boat damage is a result of the paddler or paddlers getting into a situation that the boat can't take physically. I know one of the biggest things we deal with here is dragging the boat on/over stuff a lot which can take a toll. Just know where you are paddling and if you think it's a good idea to use that particular boat or not. For example, I would never take a "fragile" boat to the Neches Wilderness Race. That course is brutal and beats up boats and paddlers (though it is one of my favorite races). Sorry I missed your race this past weekend. Looked like fun.

If nothing else, hit some flatwater around you and get in your Crozier.
It will be both. Right now I have been mainly using it as a training boat since it is to shallow in south Texas to take it. I would like to take it to the Texas Winter 100k. I think that race would be perfect for it but right on the verge of being to rough on the bottom. It is a C2.

Thank you for your feedback. And no worries on the race. Maybe next year, it'll be the same weekend.
 
Clint,
I am not tearing up any machinery. I retired from hunting which is the one time I was hard on trucks.
I have never "been four wheeling" in my life. But I did spend a career in the outdoors working out of trucks on dirt roads. The old mine roads are the worst. I do not want to run the Rubicon Trail or any difficult terrain. I have learned over the years when to park and walk.

I am not going down the rabbit hole with lockers, 37 inch wheels, lift kits and all of that other donkey crap people put on trucks.
But I plan to use it like a truck and pull stuff and travel on dirt roads. It may be my last truck so I am going to be careful with it.
 
Clint,
I am not tearing up any machinery. I retired from hunting which is the one time I was hard on trucks.
I have never "been four wheeling" in my life. But I did spend a career in the outdoors working out of trucks on dirt roads. The old mine roads are the worst. I do not want to run the Rubicon Trail or any difficult terrain. I have learned over the years when to park and walk.

I am not going down the rabbit hole with lockers, 37 inch wheels, lift kits and all of that other donkey crap people put on trucks.
But I plan to use it like a truck and pull stuff and travel on dirt roads. It may be my last truck so I am going to be careful with it.
I'm much like you, but unfortunately some of my friends live in out of the way places requiring decent ground clearance and occasionally 4WD or at least AWD, and many places I choose to go to reach a trailhead or put-in require the same...
while I don't ever intend to put my truck (or my canoes) in harms way, it sometimes is a requirement of my choice to travel to some locations.
work was a different story, our trucks would sometimes get wrecked before the warranty even expired, that was the cost of doing business. my second to last work truck was totalled when I slid off the embankment on an old forestry road, slamming sideways into a grove of birches 20'below...
 
I used to work out of Laramie, Wyoming and it was common to have chains on all four wheels. We had work trucks with close to 200,000 miles on them, that did not have more than a few scratches on them because our employees were careful with them. I never had to walk out or call for help in 30 years.

Back in the 1980s I had a logging company for a while and used an old Jeep Wagoneer to go everywhere including old skid trails at 11,000 feet in Colorado. I broke a front axle once at an old mine site near Leadville at 10,200 feet. I walked down to a road, spent the night in the soft ball field in town, hitchhiked home, bought the parts and came back the following day with a close friend. We put the truck back together in a blizzard. We built a little tent around the front axle and then drove it home.
 
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