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Seat and thwarts in a solo canoe

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I have been paddling the Old Town Canadienne ( the 15 footer) from the bow seat turned around. Even with my dog and a small cooler in the bow the boat is not trimmed very well. I like day paddling this boat, but will also use it for overnight trips. I am planning to add a more center seat and just have two thwarts, one behind the seat, and one toward the bow. This seems like the standard set up for quality solo boats. Then there is no center thwart for portaging the boat.

Any rule of thumb for how far behind the center the seat goes? What is the measurement on your factory solo? How do you portage your solo? On your shoulder?
Any ideas would be helpful. Thanks.

Planning to use the standard 6 inch OT bolts and spacers for the seat.
 
Usually about 18 inches is needed from aft of center to clear a yoke, but you don't have that.
The problem is the Canadienne is a wonderful boat but a tandem and usually comes with a yoke installed Wonder what happened to yours.
As an aside I see pain pain from trying to portage on your shoulder. We all use some sort of portage yoke. On dedicated solos this can be detachable otherwise the yoke would be way too close to the seat.

We need to call in the engineering department who may be able to give you ideas for a removable center yoke if you want to be closer than 18 inches.. What is the best trim you can get if you test sit with a milk crate you can move around.. Find the sweet spot.
 
thanks yellowcanoe.
I have a portage yoke, but plan to take it out. The detachable yoke is the next nuance. sit on a milk crate and move it around. brilliant.

Northstar Canoes is the place for detachable yokes. They will sell you just the clamps also.
 
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On my solos I put the seat about 6" aft of the yoke (which is at the balance point) ... a removable yoke is required simply because there isn't room between where you need to sit and it needs to install.

Most removable yokes use some sort of clamping system, largely I believe to fit multiple canoes. The down side of those is they are somewhat ungainly, heavy and the clamp seems to always slip. Since this is your boat, your yoke, you can go a little more custom to make it simpler. I installed a helicoil in the gunnel and a bolt/handle combo and it is easy and secure.

There is a write up with pics about 3/4 of the way down this page http://www.canoetripping.net/forums/forum/paddlecraft-construction/73582-freedom-solo-16/page5 ... if that may interest you


Brian
 
I do not think that there is a “correct” answer to solo seat location. There are too many variables between boats and paddlers and personal preferences.

Do you primarily sit, or kneel, or some 50/50-ish combination. As a sitter you can be closer to center without the canoe going bow heavy, kneelers may need to be further aft.

Physique and body weight matter. Endomorphs with big thighs and some cab forward belly differ from tall skinny ectomorphs, especially kneeling. Shorter folks with less wingspan may want to be a little further back for a narrower paddling position, and trim some gear weight forward.

Boat design matters, not just symmetrical/asymettrical or swedeform etc, but gunwale width, and even boat length/weight. It is harder to loft as much bow with a longer, heavier canoe. A 36” wide tandem with a near center solo seat is awkward to single blade without kneeling/heeling the canoe; paddling style preference matter too.

I won’t even get into double blade seat placement (hint: can be a wider paddling station with a low angle stroke).

Are you accustomed to years of paddling bow backwards in a tandem? You may find that you want the solo seat a little further back of center for familiarity of feel.

Do you always day paddle with the dog? How big a dog? Chihuahua vs Mastiff. Accessible gear placement matters; I like my cooler directly behind my seat for accessibility.

I know approximately where I usually want a solo seat, but in different canoes my preferred position ranges from front edge of seat 6 or 7 inches back of center to 11 or 12 inches back in longer/wider hulls. A shorter skinny friend who kneels, after much experimentation, has his seat 20” back of center in a 15’ canoe; I scoffed when he told me that, but he swears it works best for him.

I would do the milk crate test as YC suggests (maybe when the water is swimmable warm), with your usual day paddling load and dog and go with what feel best from there; on a camper or overnight trip you can always gear trim.

Hints with the milk crate test – I know my preferred seat height better than I know the location. I had to cut down a milk crate; left at original height it was way too tall for my typical seat depth preferences, which would have seriously thrown off the test results. It also help to put some split foam pipe insulation or pool noodle on the bottom of the crate, so it better conforms to hull curves and doesn’t slide around as easily.

About the yoke. I have never been a fan of clamp on yokes. When I used one I had it affixed to the hull in the stern when not in use, between the rear thwart and one gunwale. It was always in the canoe that way, and I couldn’t forget to bring it (which I, oops, had done). Conk has an interesting technique for that, maybe he’ll post a photo.

For an always there “yoke”, for roof rack to water and back use, I use a strap yoke in all of our solos. A length of 2” poly webbing with a buckle or other connector on a webbing loop at the other side. The Velcro is to hold the coiled strap under the inwale when not in use. It is always there, I can’t forget to bring it and it connects faster and easier than most removable yokes.

PC180161 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

On heavier canoes I use a couple of D-rings to secure the far end of the webbing

P2160534 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

That is a 70lb RX Explorer; the 2” webbing yoke works comfortably fine for short carries, and the two D-rings won’t shatter like cheap side release buckles. Mohawk sells strap yokes, but the quality of their side release buckles has gone to heck, and $35 for something easily DIY-able with a length of webbing, two machine screws and a length of Velcro is a bit much.

https://www.mohawkcanoes.com/collections/seats-yokes-and-thwarts/products/webbing-yoke
 
I place my seats 5 - 6" Aft of center.
IMG_0296_zps33674540.jpg

This seems to trim my hulls very well, with just a paddler. If I take any gear, I try and separate into a couple of packs, or stuff it under my seat .

Alan when he takes Sadie, fills a water bag, and uses it to balance the load. That works good !

As far as a portage yoke I Copied Bell Canoe's Solo Yoke.

IMG_0296_zps33674540.jpg
 

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I place my seats 5 - 6" Aft of center.




Those are Beautiful canoes ! A work of art, deserving a place on the Wall next to a Terry Redlin Print !

I'f I had them ? I'd have them on display to show the World.

I definitely wouldn't get it wet ! I'd sob profusely if I scratched that shiny finish !
 
Thanks for the comments.
That is a lot of information all in one place. Why I like this site. and no attitude.
 
Those are Beautiful canoes ! A work of art, deserving a place on the Wall next to a Terry Redlin Print !

I'f I had them ? I'd have them on display to show the World.

I definitely wouldn't get it wet ! I'd sob profusely if I scratched that shiny finish !

Ha !!! I don't have enough Wall space Robin !

Seems I've heard or said that before ! :confused: ;)
 
A great place for accessories and components is https://www.essexindustries.org/.

"Essex Industries is an integrated workplace where people with developmental disabilities work alongside others with no disabilities to make high quality canoe accessories, sold to many top canoe manufacturers and suppliers in the United States and internationally. A work center such as Essex Industries allows people to perform and be paid for work that is valued and contributes to their self-esteem and sense of personal accomplishment, even if they would not be able to meet the productivity standards to be employed in a purely competitive business.

Mountain Lake Services, our parent agency, advocates strongly for integrated and non-discriminatory work opportunities for people with developmental disabilities. We see Essex Industries and other work opportunities like it as a valuable way to come as close as possible to meeting those goals for people who are unlikely to find a similar opportunity in the world of purely competitive businesses."
 
Seat Placement.

Although my preference is to sit in my solo seat, I do like to kneel when I'm trying to lower my center of gravity, most usually when conditions get rough. Whatever your weight, you are most likely the heaviest thing in the canoe. I prefer to locate my knees perhaps 1-2 inches aft the the center line. That leaves me slightly bow high which gives me more control on moving the bow where I want it. If my seat is too close to the center, when kneeling my weight could drive the bow deeper into the water and make it harder to turn.

To support that kneeling position the front edge of the seat is set to touch the back of my thighs. With my knees on the hull bottom and the back of my thighs on the seat I've got good contact with the hull. I'm also in position to lean back and half sit/ half kneel. Kneeling from that position my paddle can reach all 4 quadrants of the canoe. My most recent canoe has the front edge of the seat 8 inches aft of the center line.

Carry Yoke.

I've been using the 2 inch webbing strap method mentioned by Mr. McCrea. The beauty of this approach is the carry yoke is always with the canoe and, when not used for carrying, it rolls up nicely out of way off to the side. Although Ive used 2 Drings in the past, I recently used a new piece of hardware called an adjustable webbing slider to tension the webbing. I believe Mr. G. MacCrady shared that out in a post some time ago.



I found that webbing slider at https://www.sailrite.com/Adjustable-...er-2-by-Suncor

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Seat Placement.

Carry Yoke.

I've been using the 2 inch webbing strap method mentioned by Mr. McCrea. The beauty of this approach is the carry yoke is always with the canoe and, when not used for carrying, it rolls up nicely out of way off to the side. Although Ive used 2 Drings in the past, I recently used a new piece of hardware called an adjustable webbing slider to tension the webbing. I believe Mr. G. MacCrady shared that out in a post some time ago.

Are you using the webbing strap as a tump strap on the head or across the shoulders?
 
Are you using the webbing strap as a tump strap on the head or across the shoulders?

The canoe pictured is a tandem that had the wood center carry yoke removed and was replaced by the 2 inch webbing. I place the webbing across my shoulders just like the wood yoke would be placed. This works just fine for the short distances I carry the canoe - vehicle to shoreline, vehicle to home rack. Portage is something I try to avoid so this carry system hasn't been tested on a long carry. It might work, but I haven't tried it.
 
I like the webbing idea for light boats like the 50 pound kevlar. I have some 2 inch webbing I use for slinging coolers in raft frames and plan to use that. I won't have to buy anything except the seat and a thwart.
 
I have two tandems that came with center solo seats (and no yoke) from the factory. The front edge of the Northstar Polaris seat is six inches behind center of boat and it's low and set up for sitting but also works fine for me kneeling with a dog in front of me. The front edge of my Blackhawk Combi center seat is 11 inches behind center of boat and is set up for kneeling. Both of my canoes are asymmetric with more volume behind center of boat than in front of center. I'd expect that somewhere around 6-8 inches behind center should be pretty good for you.
 
Adding a center seat takes up a lot of real estate. If you plan on tripping you may regret not having room for all of your gear. If kneeling I would suggest adding a kneeling thwart. This way your also get to keep you carry yoke.

Kneeling thwarts are much more comfortable than you would think.
 
Kneeling thwarts are good. For long days in a canoe at age 70 I want a seat.
The center seat is going to be great. I may take out the other 2 seats. No big deal to put them back in for a trip.
 
I built my own removable portage yoke. Where the yoke sets on the gunnels, I padded the wood and clamp brackets with leather. It eliminated the slippage along the gunnels.
 
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I built my own removable portage yoke. Where the yoke sets on the gunnels, I padded the wood and clamp brackets with leather. It eliminated the slippage along the gunnels.

I just finished one for the Pack, had to put a 5 degree angle on the clamping surface to match up with the angle on the gunnels and cut a few pieces of thin foam rubber off my wife-s yoga pad and bonded them on to reduce slippage. Experimenting with pads, never really happy with any I've used, always sliding around on my shoulders!
 

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