Where else can we go?

[Erica]

If the US/Canadian border stays closed. We have been planning this trip for almost a year and Brad has the time off work. We've got maps and gear and gotten the meals, etc. etc.

So I was pretty down in the dumps when the continued closure was announced. I am trying to rally and think about...if the Yukon trip falls through, where else could we go? that is in the US. Assuming things open up again by July.

Brad has never been out West and if I can't get north, I'd just as soon go west. We were looking at the Green and the Buffalo.

Any thoughts? Suggestions?

Thank you,
Erica

 

[stripperguy]

Adirondacks
I’ve spent a lifetime exploring there and I still have an ever growing wish list of new places to paddle

 

[sailsman63]

How big a water/how far out of civilization do you want to be?

 

[Erica]

^ farther out than is possible in the continental US.

Remoteness is not a problem. But we can't navigate anything besides beginner level white water. The Snake River, for example, is out.

I've spent a lot of time in the Northeast, and while it is beautiful in the extreme, we are looking to the West and if we are going to do a trip in continental US, being less remote and having more traffic, I'd at least like to see some spectacular scenery and/or a different ecosystem.

We have about 10 days on the water to play with. We had planned for 14, but if we have to drive across the country, that will eat into Brad's time off work. (In my work, I am the boss, so I can do what I want. )

 

[yellowcanoe]

^ farther out than is possible in the continental US.

Remoteness is not a problem. But we can't navigate anything besides beginner level white water. The Snake River, for example, is out.

I've spent a lot of time in the Northeast, and while it is beautiful in the extreme, we are looking to the West and if we are going to do a trip in continental US, being less remote and having more traffic, I'd at least like to see some spectacular scenery and/or a different ecosystem.

We have about 10 days on the water to play with. We had planned for 14, but if we have to drive across the country, that will eat into Brad's time off work. (In my work, I am the boss, so I can do what I want. )

We too are boxed in. While we can and will do trips in Maine this summer our big trip will be out West on the Green ( for the third time). The Green can take but five days if launching from Mineral Bottom and taking the jet boat back from Spanish Bottom. But we prefer starting from Crystal Geyser. That is a ten day trip.

The trouble is that the Green is Fricking Hot in the summer. If you can go after Labor Day so much the better. The Green is open now and Tex's Riverways running appropriate safety oriented shuttles. We have that Plan ZZ that calls for going in October and taking all the woolies ( we have been snowed on and boiled the same day in late Sept). The Buffalo is very scenic but not so much as the Green and frankly, I would never go in the summer. The river dorks will be drunkenly all over the place. There is too much access and too many liveries that rent to anyone and everyone. I have done it several times always in May or Sept.

The Green is indeed a different ecosystem. You pee in the river and for us females we need something like a Shewee to gain that distance arc without mudbanks collapsing under us. And your other exudate has to be taken out by you too. But the sky is Magnificent!
We never had "campsite competition" . Because you are entirely self contained there is plenty of room. Sandbars abound later in the year.

 

[ppine]

The Green is very interesting for people from the East. Avoid the hot months. No rapids to speak of but it can be windy in the narrow canyons some afternoons. Bring John Wesley Powell's journal and figure out how to filter the silt ladden water. It clogs filters. You can settle it or use a flocculant.

Now there is at least one outfitter in the area named Tex to make shuttles easier.

I would consider the Upper Missouri R in MT on the trail of Lewis and Clark.

There are some other longer trips to consider like the lower Klamath, lower Umpqua, Willamette, or maybe the islands of the Columbia.
The Yampa, San Juan, Colorado around Grand Junction, North Platte in WY, the Smith in MT, maybe the Yellowstone which has no dams for 400 miles.

I have paddled 151 miles on the Missouri from Ft Benton to Kipp Bridge but you can keep going to North Dakota if you want to or all the way to Iowa.

 

[Erica]

Thank you, yellowcanoe. I had forgotten how hot it would be on the Green, or any of the SW rivers in the summer. One possibility would be to reschedule the major review of my business from September to October. That change would have to be approved by the state monitors.

Thank you, ppine. Very interesting info on how to clear the silt from the water. Carrying water is a drag, so to speak. The others I will have to google and see where they are and how we could get there. Thank you for providing names of rivers I haven't heard of. And I forgot about Alaska. We could fly in there and then have to rent a canoe, but that is why we were doing for the Upper Liard anyway.

 

[Alan Gage]

I like going out west, particularly the PNW in the summer. Personally I wouldn't bring a boat and instead concentrate on hiking. Doesn't have to be strenuous hiking/backpacking. There is a ton available and while it can seem very crowded there is enough space that it's easy to escape the crowds and be on your own in some beautiful areas.

Alan

 

[ppine]

Erica,
I used to dream of remote Arctic rivers. I worked in Alaska and made many trips for fun over the years, and I would fall in love with a river every day. But it costs a lot to go all the way up there. Most of the time it is cold and rainy. It can be windy. There is no help. Planes cost all to get to a put in.

It is possible to get plenty remote in the Lower 48. The access is better. You can drive out with your equipment. The weather is better. You usually don't have to walk out that far if something really bad happens.

Another great river is the John Day in Oregon. It is a little pushier, and has one III that can be lined. It is remote and beautiful with lots of history. You can go hundreds of miles. It is best in May and early June. Good idea to find hydrographs for western rivers. Some have short seasons during snowmelt run off. Some are good all year.

 

[Erica]

Thank you Alan and Forester.

We have already paid an outfitter for two flights in to the Upper Liard and road shuttle back at the end. We don't have a lot of money, but what we do have, I put into canoe trips. I don't know if we will be able to get that money back. Also airline tickets to Whitehorse were about $800 each. I guess my point is we are willing to spend money to fly in.

I've never planned a trip in which we would have to fly in to town and unable to bring our own canoe. That part really bothers me. I considered purchasing a folding boat. But remember, this trip started out as solo trip for me. Bringing along another person makes the logistics more intricate.

Anything from Colorado west, we would have to fly. Driving to the Buffalo River in Arkansas would take 34 hours. We don't have that kind of time to take off a week before and after the trip. That would go for the Pacific Northwest, or even the upper Missouri. I read a book about someone who took a motor boat down the upper Missouri and there were a lot of locks and dams.

Difficult access is the price you pay to get into a truly remote area. Agreed that the weather is worse the farther north you go. I want to be someplace that if something goes bad, walking out is not an option. My most remote trip so far was a fly in to a lake which, unbeknownst to me, was north of the tree line. It was hard to find solid ground on which to camp. We saw caribou with calves and wolf tracks. The calves seemed to never have seen people before. One came down and stared at us intently. Momma kept calling him to come back to her and walk away from the river, but he was having none of it. We were much to interesting.

Good suggestion about looking at the hydrographs for different rivers.

I will spend some time researching the suggestions here. I appreciate the time you all took to make suggestions.

Erica

 

[PaddlingPitt]

Erica,

Our flight this summer out of Yellowknife was with Ahmic Air. We gave a deposit in January of about 40%. The contract stated that 30% was non-refundable, even if we cancelled more than 15 days ahead of the flight. I recently talked to the owner, who explained that once someone books, he has to purchase gas, which approximates to 30% of the total flight cost. That’s why it is non-refundable. He acknowledged that I wasn’t actually cancelling. Rather, the NWT banned me from coming. He said he would refund the entire deposit, but asked me to work with him. If all those who booked wanted a full refund, “It would be like a run on the bank” for him. So we agreed to postpone our flight until next year. He said we would still get the 2020 prices.

Ahmic Air is fairly well established, and has business other than tourists. I expect they will still be in business next year, so I’m not too worried about losing all of my deposit. Have you talked to the outfitter you booked with for the Upper Liard?

 

[dramey]

The 14 day quarantine for people flying into Alaska ends on June 2, 2020. So if you fly up to Alaska on June 3 or later, you could rent canoes and go on our rivers and lakes. We have over 3000 rivers and over 3,000,000 lakes.

 

[Erica]

Thank you, dramey. That is exciting news. I confirmed by google search that Alaska is opening up completely. I don't know why I have never thought of Alaska as a canoeing destination.

I have looked at all the rivers suggested and we like the Green and the Yampa the best. All have lovely scenery and are quite well used by recreational boaters. But we can't do those in July.

I started reading about Alaska rivers and I love the look of the Noakat. Will be looking for situations out there.

paddlingpit, I don't get the impression the outfitter I am using is big enough to survive. If we cancel now, we get a 50% refund. We did purchase travel insurance, but did not pay the extra $300 for cancel for ANY REASON. I don't believe the pandemic or border closings qualify in the list of reason we will get a refund for the trip via insurance.

 

[PaddlingPitt]

The Noatak River does look fantastic, Erica! Is it very expensive to get there and back again?

 

[Erica]

I don't know yet. Still working on it. Have emails out to some air providers, probably I should call them, but I am so rusty at using a phone.

 

[pblanc]

The Buffalo in Arkansas is certainly a possibility.

From the Ozark access down you will not encounter any rapids to speak of, but maneuvering around deadfall is always a possible necessity. Gravel bars are numerous for camping. From the Ozark access, which is relatively straightforward, down to the junction with the White River is about 84 river miles. The Buffalo is rainfall dependent but the middle and lower Buffalo generally have sufficient water throughout most of the year.

The river might be somewhat less remote than you like, although you are unlikely to see the crowds that flock to the upper Buffalo in the springtime. But once you get Buffalo Point and enter the lower Buffalo Wilderness, you won't have a lot of company.

 

[dramey]

Anybody considering canoeing in Alaska, I would recommend you download the Kindle book, The Alaska River Guide. It lists a lot of different choices for canoeing in Alaska. Some are even reachable by road.

 

[yellowcanoe]

Anybody considering canoeing in Alaska, I would recommend you download the Kindle book, The Alaska River Guide. It lists a lot of different choices for canoeing in Alaska. Some are even reachable by road.

Looks like a good investment even if a trip never happens.. Kindle is a penny less than ten bucks.

 

[Erica]

Anybody considering canoeing in Alaska, I would recommend you download the Kindle book, The Alaska River Guide. It lists a lot of different choices for canoeing in Alaska. Some are even reachable by road.

Thanks. Got it.

 

[dramey]

Looks like a good investment even if a trip never happens.. Kindle is a penny less than ten bucks.

The reason I recommend the kindle version is so that you don’t have to wait for a book from Amazon. The last order I made with Amazon took a month for them to ship out the order and that was using Amazon Prime. The post office delivered my order in 3 days.