• Happy Weed Appreciation Day! 🌱🌿🌻

Mad River Freedom on CL

Joined
Sep 28, 2015
Messages
292
Reaction score
61
Location
Orangevale, CA
Anyone here know any details other than what the CL add states? Not sure I believe that it is Kevlar. Looks like Royalex to me. If it is Kevlar I'll buy it for sure :)
Your input is appreciated!
 
Judging by your location, I’m assuming it’s the blue one in Winters?

It’s definitely a composite boat, it has molded float tanks in the ends which aren’t found on Royalex boats (that I’ve ever seen). It certainly could be Kevlar, but they also made it out of fiberglass. The best way to know that would be to weigh it. I have no specs to go off of but the Kevlar should have been in the 30ish lbs (mid to high I think?). Fiberglass was easily mid, possibly high 40s. Too many hulls and name changes that I can’t keep straight.

As long as it’s sound, I’d consider either layup at that price range. The main concern beyond that is the wood gunwales. I’m not a fan of projects (lazy, I’d rather paddle), hopefully not too dry and in my book I’d prefer them oiled. I know some like to varnish but I’ve seen more of those rot from the inside out (my personal, small sample experience).
 
If it's that one in Winters, I would get there as quick as you can and buy it if you're close. My bet is it is indeed kevlar. MR colored the inside of the old glass hulls to match the outside. The inside of the kev hulls was generally natural with gray on the floor. $400, if it's in the shape the photos and text suggest, is a bargain.
 
Buy it immediately dude! Unless it has some hideous damage not shown in the photos it is a screaming deal. The sliding seat is a sweet option. Two hours of sanding and oil and the wood will look incredible.
 
That is a bit of a mystery canoe.

Mad River made a few “Freedom” models.
A composite Freedom starting in 1992
RX Freedom 16 from 2003 – 2006
RX Freedom 17 from 2003 – 2008
Freedom Solo from 2003 – 2008, but I think only is Royalex.

The “K” at the end of the HIN does indicate a kevlar MRC and the 88 a 1988 boat. No idea is the “SX indicates a model.

The Guide was 14’ 9” in kevlar and would be an absolute steal at $400 even if it needed new brightwork. If the seller will actually measure the length and it is close to 14’ 9” start driving.

The Independence was 15’ 8” and was made in kevlar (35lbs with ash gunwales). Likewise if it is an Indy, start driving. Our Independence has an “I” following the MAD in the HIN.

SX?
 
Mine now! :)
Still a mystery as to what model it actually is. It is 16' long, 28" wide and pretty much a flat water tripper. I tried it out already. Tomorrow I'll dig into the gunwales and the seat that doesn't move as it should and so on...

Cheers for now.
 
Thanks Gumpus!
Initial run went well. It has a slight V bottom (more pronounced toward the bow and stern), so healing it even a little has it run on the flat on one side of the V or the other. With 45(ish) pounds it is heavier than I hoped, especially considering the possibility of the "K"evlar. However, given the age and technology available in 88, and the 16' length, 45 isn't horrible. The canoe tracks a lot like my W. Prism. It will turn but has to be talked into it. The canoe has a ton of free board, and it seems fairly fast, so it should make a decent tripper. No carrying yoke, but 99% of my canoe trips are 1-2 days with no portages. Overall it feels very solid and the hull is super stiff.

Items to look into: The gunwales have a few spots where hard and soft areas intermingle. I'll scratch out the soft stuff and use wood filler for now. Soon or later I might consider new gunwales. Right now I'd say they are still 80% or better. Someone monkeyed with the seat hardware, and sliding it takes too much effort. I'll fix that with some new hardware. A 6" piece of the starboard gunwale, right at the deck plate, is missing, and someone got creative with Expoxy or perhaps Grate Stuff (?). Can't really tell, but a little elbow grease and some acetone should clean that up and I can easily patch in a piece of gunwale. I'll oil up the sanded gunwales and other wood parts with some Watco and polish the hull with some light rubbing compound followed by wax. She should be good to go by next weekend. :)

I am happy I bought it because A. my own confirmation bias but B. I believe that any canoe in half-ways decent shape (and not of the Sun Dolphin/Coleman/other plastic type) is worth $400. Did I mention it came with a brand new Gray Owl Voyageur paddle?

I'll call Mad River on Monday to see if they can shed light on the actual layup.
 
Is it badged “Freedom” somewhere? That is not a Vermont MRC model that I am familiar with, but there are a number of semi-obscure MRC’s of that earlier era.

I’m kinda curious about the “SX” in the HIN. As far as the weight in “K”evlar, IIRC Vermont MRC made some composite canoes in expedition-weight layups; could be the “X” is for eXpedition.

Please let us know what Mad River has to say.

EDIT: Mad River Screamer maybe?

16’3" long

27" wide

15" deep

22" bow

48-ish lbs in kevlar
 
Last edited:
Mike,
There is no badging or model imprinted anywhere on the hull. Your idea that it may be a "Screamer" was close. Based on the (below) thread it seams that a "Traveler" is the more likely model though. The measurements and age seem right and the weight of about 47 pounds (weighed mine) seems to fit as well. The description of the Traveler as a large solo is certainly right too. I am 210# and the canoe feels I like I could easily add another 200# with plenty of safety margin to go. The photo of the canoe in the thread shows it with two additional seats installed...must have been interesting paddling that configuration :)

https://forums.paddling.com/t/need-help-identifying-mad-river-kevlar-boat/73459

The additional links provided in the thread describe my first paddle impressions to the T!
"The Traveler is a large volume, deep solo that began life as the Jim Henry designed Screamer, which was a downriver racing hull. As such, the hull is extremely seaworthy. I would not call it remotely squirrelly. The shallow V bottom MRC hulls do behave a bit differently. The Traveler is a pretty hard tracker. An efficient turn usually requires a fair amount of off-side heel."

Still waiting to hear back from MRC...
 
The Screamer was the predecessor to the Traveler, and by years of production the Traveler makes more sense as a 1988 canoe (Traveler 1986 – 1990).

Designer – Jim Henry
Hull configuration – Straight, asymettrical, shallow vee
Average weight – fiberglass 60lbs, Kevlar 47lbs
Length – 16’ 3”
Gunwale width – 26 ½”
Depth – 14” at center, 22 ½” bow, 18 ½” stern (probably 18 ½”, I have the stern height noted in ink)

Catalog blather (excluding some “sleek lines”, “smooth water displacement”, “Non-turbulent replacement” and “good final stability” yadda yadda:
The large volume Traveller is in a class by itself as an open water cruising and tripping solo canoe. A sliding seat is standard.

Kevlar Traveler, nice find.
 
Thanks, Mike.
Can't wait to spend more time on the water with it.
Do you have a link to a late 80' MRC catalog that shows the Traveler?
 
Do you have a link to a late 80' MRC catalog that shows the Traveler?

Paper copies only, no links or scans, just a file cabinet of old canoe company catalogs. Wish I had kept every one, too late now.

Sadly, until 4 or 5 or 10 year ago, Mad River supported archival catalog links to Vermont era catalogs, then they disappeared; maybe some proprietary issue with Kay Henry.

Had I known those old catalog links were going to vanish I would have bought a fresh printer cartridge and at least printed the catalog page of every model. There have been something like 100 different MRC canoe models, or more than 160 is you count RX and different glass/kevlar composite versions separately.

Some of the models from that Vermont era are lesser known and little seen; Whistler, Minstrel, Pearl, Tempest, Companion, Compatriot, Hurricane, Fingerling, Slipper and Ladyslipper. The Grand Laker, and some mini-Grand Laker; I can’t even remember the name of that one. (Anyone?)

A scan of old MRC catalogs, from the 70’s and 80’s, and even 90’s would be a great resource. Could be that some long-in-business outfitter filed away copies of their old Mad River catalogs.

I have said this before, and even e-mailed this manufacturer, but I really, really wish Wenonah would offer links to scans of their old catalogs. Same company for 50 years, so many J-boats and early models, so much other “stuff” on their website.

Not the 20 pages catalog pages of construction differences and how to paddle, just the catalog page of every Wenonah models through history. I would read the crap outa that.

Guess I’ll send Wenonah another e-mail request.
 
I remember when MRC had old catalogs available in PDF. I agree. Too bad they took them off their website. Especially also because they had so many interesting canoe models, like you said. Especially the Traveler ;).

In the meantime, MRC got back to me via fb and confirmed that what I have got is indeed a Traveler in Kevlar.
Now I am looking for sliding seat hardware. Previous owners seemed to have had a fun time at the hardware store. The results of their creativity lack function though. Wish I had a parts list or drawing of the assembly.
 
Hey Dagger, just FYI there is a 1990 Mad River catalog on eBay for $19.

Also FYI here's a Swift parts list that includes slider seat stuff. I'm not familiar with the details of the Mad River design (feel free to post pics) but maybe you can mix and match with some Swift parts. I think the slider seat brackets were line C0101 and you'll also see ash sliding seat rails for $10 each. If you can hang the seat rails and attach the brackets to your current seat it seems like it could/should work. The brackets are made to fit Swift rails and they just screw into the bottom of the seat frame. I have two Swifts with sliding seats so let me know if you want to see any pics. By the way if you have a cane seat that's dried out I suggest you oil it asap on both sides or it may tear.

https://swiftcanoe.com/wp-content/up...sPricelist.pdf
 
Last edited:
Back
Top