- Joined
- Mar 17, 2016
- Messages
- 510
- Reaction score
- 94
Is this thread starting to "stink"?
-
Happy Marine Mammal Rescue Day! 🐳🐬🦭🦦
No that would be my dog.
For us wag bag virgins, some questions. Is one big (~5 gallon) wag bag used for multiple deposits and repeatedly opened and resealed? Or are smaller wag bags used for one deposit each with each being permanently sealed after one use?
Boy, do I hate some of you fuckers. Who needs this. This thread has been so disrespectful to this site, take a look at the folks who kept it going. Thank them next week. The OP is a member of Canadian Canoe Routes but he would never start a thread like this there. Same thing with you know who who coops an attitude with other members here on a regular basis...only here, never on other sites.
I'm done, sorry to the good guys here.
I'm done, sorry to the good guys here.
And isn't that the beauty of this site that we can discuss disgusting topics, I find CCR to be a bit too formal but then again it's Polite Canada. You have the power to end the discussion without referring to members as 'Fuckers'.
Ever since the thread "Canoetripping.net is a special place!" and the 'update' this site seemed a bit on edge.
Ever since the thread "Canoetripping.net is a special place!" and the 'update' this site seemed a bit on edge.
G
Guest
Guest
Since I have been called out as a hated F er, and by inference one of the bad guys, I feel compelled to respond.
If the perceived disrespect to the site was due to my attempt to post using apostrophes and quotation marks that was done as a test, after receiving a private message suggestion from the site administrator. I made that clear in the post.
I would have no qualms about posting a wag bag thread to Canadian Canoe Routes, but wag bags and portable toilet systems are a permit requirement for some western US rivers and there are at least a few members here who canoe trip on the Green or Colorado.
I do not want to be held responsible as the culprit for some ominous development next week, and find it hard to believe that a discussion about wag bag use, a topic that is actually germane to canoe tripping, is truly at the root of any disharmony.
If the perceived disrespect to the site was due to my attempt to post using apostrophes and quotation marks that was done as a test, after receiving a private message suggestion from the site administrator. I made that clear in the post.
I would have no qualms about posting a wag bag thread to Canadian Canoe Routes, but wag bags and portable toilet systems are a permit requirement for some western US rivers and there are at least a few members here who canoe trip on the Green or Colorado.
I do not want to be held responsible as the culprit for some ominous development next week, and find it hard to believe that a discussion about wag bag use, a topic that is actually germane to canoe tripping, is truly at the root of any disharmony.
Since I too seem to be a target of the insult, I'd like to make some sincere points.
First, I believe waste disposal is a relevant topic on any canoe forum. Wag bags, in particular, have been discussed here several times in western USA trip reports, and I have never known how they actually work.
Second, before it was mentioned by Mike McCrea and Robin in this thread, I was unaware of the problem of pasted posts getting cut off at quote marks and apostrophes. Along with an email to Mike about the issue, I decided to experiment. Perhaps I should have started a separate test thread. My tests confirmed that text pasted from MS Word does get cut off at those punctuation marks. Furthermore, all Word-pasted posts in past threads have had the quote marks and apostrophes retroactively changed into gibberish symbols. Therefore, I suspect the recent upgrade is the cause of the issue.
Third, I post almost exclusively on this canoe forum, and in recent years have posted only an handful of times on others. I have my own style of posting -- which sometimes includes repartee with friends like Mike -- and am not aware that I've changed my style on different forums. I certainly have never intended to disrespect any forum or any member of any forum, especially since I have always posted under my real name. That said, anyone who writes a lot can sometimes fail to communicate properly and create unintended impressions. If I have, I regret that.
First, I believe waste disposal is a relevant topic on any canoe forum. Wag bags, in particular, have been discussed here several times in western USA trip reports, and I have never known how they actually work.
Second, before it was mentioned by Mike McCrea and Robin in this thread, I was unaware of the problem of pasted posts getting cut off at quote marks and apostrophes. Along with an email to Mike about the issue, I decided to experiment. Perhaps I should have started a separate test thread. My tests confirmed that text pasted from MS Word does get cut off at those punctuation marks. Furthermore, all Word-pasted posts in past threads have had the quote marks and apostrophes retroactively changed into gibberish symbols. Therefore, I suspect the recent upgrade is the cause of the issue.
Third, I post almost exclusively on this canoe forum, and in recent years have posted only an handful of times on others. I have my own style of posting -- which sometimes includes repartee with friends like Mike -- and am not aware that I've changed my style on different forums. I certainly have never intended to disrespect any forum or any member of any forum, especially since I have always posted under my real name. That said, anyone who writes a lot can sometimes fail to communicate properly and create unintended impressions. If I have, I regret that.
G
Guest
Guest
Intending no disrespect to the board, but I answered this in a PM to Glenn, and this morning a friend called and mentioned that he did not know how wag bags worked either, despite having used the services of a bucket and wag bag system over an 11 day western trip. He just never put the bag in or took it out.
For folks who have never used a wag bag system, here goes. The Wag Bag itself consists of
A thick, double zip locked 11 x 13 inch outer bag for used filled wag bag storage and transport. As a rough calculation that outer bag will easily accommodate 5 or 6 trippers a day, or a solo tripper for most of a week when base camped
A thick kitchen garbage sized inner bag, 22 x 25. That inner bag lines the comfy toilet seat bucket for waste collection and stays lining the bucket until time to pack up.
Inside the 22 x 25 bucket lining bag is some poo powder that solidifies waste and kinda hides the odor. Scatological hint, sprinkling bleach powder directly on the deposit helps with odor control. Urological hint, do not pee in wag bags.
On group trips we have typically used one wag bag per day. Each morning before we break camp the inner liner bag is twisted closed and placed inside the double zip locked bag, and that outer bag is then placed inside the smaller screw top bucket for canoe transport. On solo trips where I may base camp for a few days, a single wag bag will last much longer.
An odoriferous note. With three layers of protection, inner bag, outer zip lock bag and screw top bucket, the bucket system is far less smelly in the canoe than the rental toilets from western river outfitters. Smaller, lighter and more convenient to carry as well. Plus an outfitter toilet is a 50 dollar rental.
Wag bags are widely available.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Ozark-Trail-Double-Doodie-Bags/14550463
Lastly, at least for my morning constitutional comfort, a portable toilet seat to snap atop the 5 gallon bucket. LNT take care of business in comfort anywhere without imprinting groover lines on your gluteus maximus.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Emergenc...rvival-Tote-able-Toilet-Seat-and-Lid/47770738
I tend to dislike regulations, but I can live with pack out your waste rules in heavily occupied, permit required sites. And even some places where a portable toilet is not required but merely a convenience, sanitary or otherwise.
Thanks for the detailed explanation, but some questions remain.
I first faced the solid waste disposal issue not while canoeing, but when driving in my van hundreds or thousands of miles to get to the water. I have used full-sized vans as my canoe vehicles and living quarters for more than 30 years. One of the advantages is that calls of nature, even in the middle of New York City, can be handled inside the van. I first investigated small portable toilets, but didn't like their potential for odor, requirement for chemical disposal, and the space they take up. So, I guess I just invented my own wag bag system without the bucket or seat -- just a garbage bag on the floor and a sealing bag.
Is that kind of individual system allowed on regulated rivers? Quite honestly, I've shied away from some western rivers in small part because I don't want to participate in a community bucket. Can individuals just use and package up their own small two bag system for each nature call and then put these small bags in their own storage tube in their own canoe? The alternative, while group paddling, would seem to be that every person, each time they have a nature call, would have to get the community bucket from whomever's canoe it's in every time they have to go ashore. That seems inefficient, especially if the boats don't paddle close together.
I first faced the solid waste disposal issue not while canoeing, but when driving in my van hundreds or thousands of miles to get to the water. I have used full-sized vans as my canoe vehicles and living quarters for more than 30 years. One of the advantages is that calls of nature, even in the middle of New York City, can be handled inside the van. I first investigated small portable toilets, but didn't like their potential for odor, requirement for chemical disposal, and the space they take up. So, I guess I just invented my own wag bag system without the bucket or seat -- just a garbage bag on the floor and a sealing bag.
Is that kind of individual system allowed on regulated rivers? Quite honestly, I've shied away from some western rivers in small part because I don't want to participate in a community bucket. Can individuals just use and package up their own small two bag system for each nature call and then put these small bags in their own storage tube in their own canoe? The alternative, while group paddling, would seem to be that every person, each time they have a nature call, would have to get the community bucket from whomever's canoe it's in every time they have to go ashore. That seems inefficient, especially if the boats don't paddle close together.
G
Guest
Guest
The tradition on some western river trips is for the community toilet to be placed somewhere with a scenic view, often scenic both for the user and other members of the group viewing the constitutional. That may be an issue for the shy or easily embarrassed.
There are more compact alternatives to a bulky rental toilet, or to the two bucket system that I prefer to use. The most common is as simple as placing waste bags in a length of PVC pipe with a screw cap. See especially kayak storage space limitations. Strapping a 30lb metal rental toilet to the back deck of a kayak on day 6 seems inadvisable.
Without the need for a bucket stand and seat that solution is much more space efficient, though to my mind less comfortable and far less efficient in group travel, where a single wag bag and bucket serves multiple users throughout the day. And, seriously, scurrying around with a flashlight at 2am trying to lay out a bag on the ground, aim well and then deal with immediate storage is not fun.
The permit regulations for downriver storage of the waste receptacle may vary. On the Green a dry bag marked TOILET WASTE will do, although outfitters doing post trip gear stacking in the jetboat or trailer undoubtedly prefer a waste container more crushproof and rigid. I do not even want to think about that exploded dry bag issue on the long jetboat ride back to Moab.
I have gotten the bucket system out for a companions emergency use midday. Rules require that groups traveling on a single permit stay together in any case. In that regard the nestled bucket system is handy since the entire kit can be grabbed and carried ashore with one hand.
Even so, if I was not the one carrying the bucket system or rental toilet I would have a wag bag or two, and a small to be thrown away later dry bag for personal use, just like I want to be self sufficient in every other gear way.
Since I prefer to trip in 16 plus foot long soloized tandem canoes I have plenty of space for the bucket, and since it is my bucket going in my canoe I do not mind being the one who deals with packing it up the next morning.
I once worked as stool nurse on cholera studies, which included weighing and grading each specimen and dispensing oral electrolyte solution. Packing up a group wag bag has got nothing on that.
