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    #31
    Since I taped off and sprayed hull and deck separately I had high hopes the deck would be ok, not...

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      #32
      ok, imagine about 3 weeks of sanding every spare minute...

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        #33
        Have to wait 3 weeks before I can wax the finish, but other than some minor rigging odds and ends, its done...

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          #34
          Wow! That is a beautiful job! Serious eye candy! Job well done deerfly!

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            #35
            thanks doug, finally got the spit shine on the damn thing, now its time to put some tripping miles on it.

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              #36
              Hi Deerfly, I was looking through your build post again (for the 10th time), and was wondering if you have any more thoughts about your build experience or how your boat performs now that you've likely put some time in on the water. I am starting my build and have a few questions on how you did a few things, or whether there is anything you would do differently?

              Thanks, Mark

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                #37
                Hi Mark, glad I decided to check in today.

                Overall I'm very very very happy with the northwind. I've done quite a few small excursions 10-12 mile local river stuff and one 26 mile 8 hr paddle with it heavily loaded. Didn't get to do the EC this year, primarily from not being able to train often enough and an unplanned surgery two weeks before the start made it a non starter. I will do that challenge before they plant me tho...

                Anyway, I don't think I would do anything different with the forms and stripping aspects, except maybe buying a 2x4x14' aluminum beam instead of making one and be careful at the stems and do some test strips before commencing the build. I had to do some tweaking at the rear and should have tested more before stripping for real. I am also very glad I integrated the rudder gudgeon too. The rudder could bend or break off but there is no chance for the gudgeon to fail. I think you could glue and glass a carbon tube on there after the halves are glued together and over wrap some glass around it while glassing the exterior seams and it should still be very strong.

                In terms of the build, you have to ponder is how hard to you want or expect to use it. Are you going for light as possible with some compromising on strength and durability vs something stronger and heavier. I decided to err on the side of indestructible but still managed to stay right around 60lbs. If I was shooting for light weight I think I could have come in somewhere closer to 50lbs. However, the build would not have been nearly as strong, especially from a deep scratch and puncture protection standpoint, which was an important consideration for me and the jagged coral cap rock and expanses of oyster beds where I paddle most often. Plus, I can sit or stand on my decks, I can get in and out of the canoe with my full weight (200lbs +/-) on the combing with the canoe on dry land or touching bottom. I can stand inside on on dry land or a bottomed out on a rocky shoreline too.

                Simply using thicker strips and less glass doesn't cover all the dimensions of strength and durability. Again, a lot depends on how you plan or expect to use the canoe, but I would not realistically expect to come away with anything much less than 50lbs unless you can pamper it and/or repair it often. You're going to have about 30+ lbs of raw wood and glue in the canoe, so there isn't much room for barrier glass and epoxy to get the weight down and still be relatively durable.

                If there was one major caution it would be joining the deck to the hull. I was not careful enough checking my beam measurements before glassing the insides of both halves. My over the top lamination schedule made this even more challenging because the parts were very rigid and were not particularly accommodating on the marriage. I did several dry fits with tape and even ended up using some temporary braces in a couple places to make it a little less stressful at glue up. I enlisted a friend to help too. Joining two halves of a 17' canoe was not a trivial task with the epoxy paste timer running.

                So I don't think you can be too careful checking and supporting each half when glassing the interior. If I build another one I think I would make some female forms for both top and bottom. Three support points would probably be sufficient, one on center and another one about midway between the center on each end.

                Now that I know you are building one of these I am more than willing to answer questions or brain storm with you along the way. If you haven't already start a build thread here as there are many more experienced builders on here than me that can help with the general nuances of strip building too. I can pm you my contact info if you want, no problem. Don't hesitate to reach out.

                - eric

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                  #38
                  Thanks for all your thoughts Deerfly. Sorry to hear that you missed the EC. Your build posts on this forum are what finally convinced me to move forward with a build myself. I have a friend who owns both a Kruger sea wind and a MR Monarch, so I've been looking at this style boat for a while. The North wind is noticeably rounder on the bottom than the sea wind, closer to the monarch. The monarch is a little twitchy at first, but fine after that even with no extra weight on board. What's your experience on initial stability? Could you stand up in it?

                  This will be my 4th stripper build, so I have a good foundation for moving forward. I documented a couple of them on this site. I plan on using my existing strongback, so I'll be cutting a bunch of little plywood rectangles to mount the forms. As far as a rudder, I already talked to the Kruger guy who said he would sell me one. I really like that design since it runs a little shallower which is nice in rivers. I like how yours just drops in the tube though, think I'm still undecided.

                  As far as the build, I am going more for expedition strength since Igenerally won't be using this boat where it needs to be portaged very far. This is a replacement for a my sea kayak, and will be used for a few big trips on big rivers, big lakes and hopefully some coastal trips. I am using 1/4" spruce strips for the hull which will be sheathed with 5oz Kevlar inside and out, and an aditional layer of 5.5oz s glass on the outside. The deck will be cedar with Kevlar on the inside and 6oz glass on the outside. I am going with internal ash stems too just for the hell of it. I was going to scrap that idea if I couldn't get the 1/8" laminates to bend the tight radius on the stern, but it worked and I've already made them.

                  Thanks for the heads up on retaining the body shapes when laminating the insides. A wider hull with no deck is certainly much more forgiving in that regard. I'll bet the deck, with it being relatively flat, has very little flexibility, and maybe out towards the ends too? I imagine the coaming makes it rock solid once the lip is on and inside glassed. I'll take your advice with the female forms, and add spacers towards the ends when the time comes.

                  I plan to start a build thread once I get my wood milled and forms cut. I think I understand most of the entire build process, and that this boat is fundamentally like building a strip kayak, even though it is definitely not a kayak, it is a canoe. All I ask at the moment is whether you would entertain describing the construction of the coaming in more detail here in your build thread, especially how you made the lip and how you glassed it. If you have pictures too, that would be great. This is something unique to constructing this canoe that wouldnt be covered in other build threads. Obviously take your time on that, I won't be there for some time.

                  oh, one more thing. Did you add any floatation? Still undecided on whether to do tanks or foam. The Kruger and the monarch look like they just poured a can of expanding foam in the ends and painted over it.

                  Thanks again, Mark
                  Last edited by dogbrain; 10-01-2019, 03:09 PM.

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                    #39
                    ok so you're more in tune with a lot of this than I realized.

                    Initial stability... That is a bit subjective by person I think, but this design has a very rounded bottom that is meant more for friction reduction than stability. I happen to have very good balance too, esp for my age. I think I have some pics and or video on here somewhere standing up and fly casting in my Hemlock Peregrine solo. So I may not be a good indicator. I have stood up in the Northwind in calm, shallow water close to shore and not for long. I had to be committed to staying balanced and not falling in. It more like surfing than standing on a SUP board. There was no relaxing in that experiment. Sitting and paddling in it totally empty it can feel a bit loose, but I didn't try to roll it and never felt like it would go over without me initiating it. I had planned to do that along with open water self recovery, but after missing the EC window I haven't got around to that level of practice yet, but need to...

                    As you add more and more gear I would say stability is a non issue. I posted a trip on here where we got caught in squall last summer on the gulf between Yankeetown area and Cedar Key, 35-45 mph winds quartering into my starboard beam and I never felt challenged stability wise. I had about 75lbs of gear, fresh water and firewood on board, so that would have been close to 300lbs, maybe more if I factored in the beer. It was very choppy and wet with stinging rain and I didn't have a spray skirt either, so I took on some water too. Regardless I was able paddle my intended course to beach on a leeward point and wait to be fried by the lightening.

                    Ash stems will give you some extra bump protection with nominal weight penalty. I filled the stem areas with a mixture of epoxy paste and chopped carbon fiber and dammed in with a waxed wood panel that I removed after it set up.

                    In terms of the 5oz kevlar sandwich, I think I may have mentioned that recipe on the build thread or somewhere else, but I think that is a good approach for a tough but lighter build than mine. Kevlar inside and out should stay together better on a really hard impact after the epoxy is busted over the other fibers. Don't fill coat the insides either except the high wear area on the sole. I found this build with the continuous curves easy to squeegee excess resin, but you could probably save a pound or two by bagging and infusing. More cost and time, but something to think about if you want to minimize excess weight anywhere you can. I'd probably do it if I built another one.

                    You are correct about the combing adding some stiffness as well, but you may want to feather some glass out around the combing joint to help disperse the stress out more. I would go all the way to the seam on the sides, inside and out and maybe 5"- 8" forward and aft. You don't want much flex around there every time you put your weight on the combing or you'll be stressing the glass/wood bond. If you hear any crackling noises the first time you load it its already too late.

                    I have to go back and look whether I mentioned it or not, but I added more camber to my deck up toward the combing to give it a little extra strength and water shedding. Its not a lot, but its more than whats on the plan. You should be able to see it in the pictures, if not I'll post some new pics.

                    No problem on the combing details either. It was actually pretty easy, just painfully time consuming. I would recommend making the lip wider than I did too. I should have more pic's of all that beyond what I posted, if not I can describe and/or sketch out the dimensions and steps.

                    I also agonized over using a bulkhead at each end, but ultimately decided to use float bags instead. Mostly so I could have easier access if I needed to get in there for an inspection or repair. And I could always add bulkheads afterwards if I decided they were better. But as it turns out the bags also make for a convenient friction hold for my 2 piece kayak paddle stuffed under the bow. Could stuff extra paddle or two in stern too Easy stowage and reach when needed without cluttering deck. I haven't had to patch these bags yet so I have no idea how patch worthy they are, but carrying an extra float bag or two rolled up as backup is a non issue to me, esp on any kind of major adventure.

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                      #40
                      Thanks Deerfly. Lots of good info there.

                      Mark

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                        #41
                        Mark … I also built the woodstrip JEM North Wind plans, actually built two of them. I recommend you do your canoe weight calculations before committing to a layup. I built 2 because the first version came in over 70 lbs. The deck does add weight. First one was 1/4" cedar strips hull and deck, 6oz fiberglass inside and out hull and deck, a football of 6oz S-glass on hull bottom, plus S-glass skids, No fill coat on inside. Cockpit coaming 7/16" douglas fir with ash splints for the rim. Gun rack style seat bracket with Ed's extreme duty web seat. At my age it was a struggle to lift the boat after a paddle. So I use stern wheels to cart it up the boat launch.

                        I sold the first one and immediately started 2nd version which came in at 61 lbs including rudder. Much better! I used variable thickness of cedar woodstrips, 1/4" below waterline, graduating to 3/16" on the deck, mostly from strips leftover from previous builds. Deck layup is 4oz fiberglass inside and out. The hull is still 1/4" cedar with 6oz E-glass plus football on outside, S-glass only for skids, and inner hull is 6oz E-glass in center and 4oz on ends starting about the end of cockpit. No inner fill coat. Cockpit coaming 3/8" mahogany with a carbon rim (which I molded from the 1st build). Same seat design as the 1st version. My rudder gudgeon is the one from Duckworks for pointed sterns which I had to bend the top piece to get the angle right, it is nice and solid. I added TruCourse rudder and foot controls which is good enough. The rudder, gudgeon and cables add 3 pounds but is worth it.

                        The canoe handles very fine and is plenty stable. It is an excellent design. But for my recent BWCAW solo trip I left this boat at home and instead took my Kevlar solo canoe which is 20 pounds lighter.

                        Larry

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                          #42
                          Hi Larry, thanks for your thoughts on materials and methods. Im interested in knowing more about how you did the coaming and seat on your boats. I'll probably do the seat hanger like a Kruger sea wind. I am building mine a bit heavy, similar to Deerflys in terms of layup, but without the carbon. I have other lightweight boats for different types of trips, so weight will follow in priority to strength and function for this build.

                          Mark

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