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Is paint over UV exposed epoxy necessary?

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I have always topcoated skid plates with paint. At first because I didn’t like the ugly yellow color of kevlar felt, especially on a red or green canoe. Later, doing Dynel skid plates with graphite powder and black pigment, mostly because the paint coat provided a chance to sharpen up the black epoxy lines.

With boats stored outside a UV protective top coat seems a reasonable finishing step, but is it necessary when adding graphite powder and pigment?

Do either of those additives provide a measure of UV protection?
 
Regard this as an uninformed opinion, because I don't have any hard info on your question. That said, if the sun shines on your pigment and graphite infused lay-up, it is shining on an epoxy surface. Certainly, the UV is not penetrating very deeply, because the pigment and graphite will block it. I think there would be UV degradation of a thin surface layer, meaning that while it may last a lot longer than un-augmented epoxy, it will ultimately degrade. That's just a guess.

Is it time for another in-the-yard test?
 
Well take that with a grain of salt, but I've been using EcoPoxy for the last little while and they claim it is UV stable and should be affected by uv... I made a bunch of ww paddles this year and after having some white strikes appearing on the surface of the blades, I reached out to EcoPoxy to know what was the problem... They gave me a bunch of reasons that didn't match what I was doing so they told me to just vanish them.... I told them that the reason I choose to go with there product was that I didn't have to topcoat the stuff I made and save some steps and time!! They say that I should be top coating the stuff anyway.... Didn't made sense to me and that is totally false advertising.... But if there UV stable epoxy need to be top coated I guess it is a good idea to top coat all epoxy!
 
I have applied quite a few abrasion plates as well as a keel strip or two, using epoxy mixed with graphite powder. I have not painted over them. They seem to be holding up just fine and some are many years old and have seen a good bit of UV exposure.
 
I understand the question to be limited to protecting skid plates from UV. First, and perhaps somewhat OT, I don't believe in skid plates. I find them ugly, heavy in the worst possible place, the stems, and, most importantly, completely unnecessary even on whitewater canoes. Of course, I don't bash against rocks, ram onto shores, or drag the ends of my canoes along parking lots. (Often.)

That said, I put Kevlar skid plates on my oldest canoe, my 39 year old Royalex Mad River Explorer. I put them on without any paint, varnish or any other overlay protection, and the skid plates show no significant degradation problem after 39 years of being stored outdoors. Maybe it depends upon how much sun a surface gets on various types and orientations of canoe racks, but my experience is not to worry about UV degradation of small composite components like skid plates, paddle blades or whitewater helmets.

On the other hand, the woodwork on almost all my outdoor stored canoes becomes seriously compromised after about 15 years unless heavily varnished. (Oil sucks, both literally and metaphorically.)
 
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There is some reference in this thread, graphite epoxy exposed for years in the sun turned out to be UV-resistant enough... myself, I've avoided graphite since it's black and is said to heat up in the sun so much that the epoxy softens. IIRC, graphite-bottomed canoes left out in the sun became soft enough that the rope tie-downs left impressions on the hull afterwards.

Not to be contrary and contradict West but we have boats that have been coated with the epoxy graphite mix that are now six years old, sitting outside upside down exposed to a lot of UV (this is Oklahoma!) with absolutely no protection. They also have been through some hard scraping, like TX 200, and used and dragged around during Sail Ok by a ton of people.

None of the black graphite epoxy on bottom has any clear coating or protection and I know none of it has been retouched, although that is certainly possible to do. It is tougher than one would think but certainly I know you all are building a boat that you want to have for many, many years or even a lifetime.

So, a little more effort wouldn't cost much in money or time. Smiles here. And yes, I have applied epoxy graphite myself. Make sure you get it black enough in the mixing!

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I have built a number of canoes in the Gougeon (WEST) shop with Meade and Jan and we used graphite liberally for bottom and hull coatings on boats that are in direct sunlight over time.

Small boats are used and bottoms will be in need of reworking every few years any way, so in my book graphite in epoxy is uv barrier enough. Will the hull breakdown or chalk from refracted uv from sitting on a trailer, I seriously doubt it. Will the sun effect the graphite in epoxy over 20 or so years of use without refinishing? Light chalking might occur but no structural effects but...........I would also bet bottoms will get scrubbed, sanded, reworked etc during this years.

I would not recommend it as a topside coating. Although this said my canoe and two masts have been in direct tropical sunlight for nearly fifteen years without any chalking issue. This is what I know from building with the experts and from first hand experience.






https://www.smallcraftadvisor.com/message-board2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1234
 
Sounds like UV topcoating is less necessary with the addition of graphite powder. Enamel paint topcoats scratch off easily in any case.

Good to know. I’m gonna what the heck paint them anyway.

I understand the question to be limited to protecting skid plates from UV. First, and perhaps somewhat OT, I don't believe in skid plates. I find them ugly, heavy in the worst possible place, the stems, and, most importantly, completely unnecessary even on whitewater canoes. Of course, I don't bash against rocks, ram onto shores, or drag the ends of my canoes along parking lots. (Often.)

Admittedly most of the WW canoes I have worked on had as much wear under the pedestal as on the stems, but I do believe in the value of skid plates.

Unnecessary? Almost every skid plate I have installed has gone over visible wear areas on both Royalex and composite boats. Of course I do occasionally oops bash rocks, drive the bow ashore when necessary, nick the stern dropping over a ledge, and drag portage my canoes up steep banksides and around strainers. (Often.)

For example, the Penobscot skid plates were installed after sufficient vinyl layer scraping had occurred to show where needed. Four or five years later they were worn smooth and into the kevlar felt, and I topcoated them with an epoxy & g/flex mix and some black pigment. Those kevlar skid plates looked like this after another 4 or 5 years abuse.

PB040023 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

The heaviest wear area is again apparent, and without some kind of skid plate that wear would be into the RX core.

Recoated with G/flex and graphite powder those have another 5+ years of protection (and I can straighten up the sloppy lines with black paint)

PB050045 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

Ugly? Yes, many kevlar felt skid plates are ugly. Even those are less ugly if the initial resin is pigmented to match the hull.

PB040027 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

That was a sloppy installation job, using the last dregs of some quickly thickening urethane resin and no peel ply, but at least the kev felt was pigmented red to better match the hull when the scrapes got into the fabric. The UV topcoat of red enamel paint is nearly gone.

G/flex, Dynel and graphite powder skid plates installed over the existing kevlar felt. Once painted these will not look ugly to my eye, especially on a canoe with black vinyl gunwales and deck plates.

PB070054 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

Dynel skid plates, installed with graphite powder and peel ply compression, fit more flush and smooth, even when, as above, installed atop old wearing down kevlar felt skid plates.

We have installed single layer Dynel skid plates on some white bottom boats using white pigment (no graphite powder) and peel ply. You have to look closely to tell they are there. Ugly (vs function) is in the eye of the beholder.

Heavy? Skid plates need not be thick, oversized kevlar felt fuglies, laid on using every drop of urethane resin in the kit.

The last properly sized Dynel & graphite powder skid plates I installed weighed less than 3oz each. I’ll pay that slight weight penalty for my known wear areas, even at the best-kept-light stems.

I've avoided graphite since it's black and is said to heat up in the sun so much that the epoxy softens. IIRC, graphite-bottomed canoes left out in the sun became soft enough that the rope tie-downs left impressions on the hull afterwards.

I have not observed any epoxy softening on skid plated canoes stored out in the sun, or even on canoes racked on the truck while parked baking under the desert sun, although the belly lines are well away from the graphite powder skid plates.

Since the Dynel was hard roller compressed under the peel ply as it set up there isn’t much raised thickness there to leave a rope or strap impression.
 
https://www.westsystem.com/wp-content/uploads/GougeonBook-061205-1.pdf

If ya all have not found this manual it is priceless even if you don't use West System. The graphite does offer some UV protection. See bottom of page 155 and top of page 156.

Foxyotter, I had not seen that manual; very helpful and informative.

Both pigments and WEST SYSTEM 420 Aluminum Powder provide protection from sunlight. Epoxy breaks down under prolonged exposure to ultraviolet light; if you do not plan to coat your hull with a finish system immediately, add either pigment or powder to your last coat of epoxy.

This is a temporary measure which does not replace a final paint finish. Aluminum powder is more difficult to sand than pigment, so we suggest using it only on areas that are already fair and smooth. WEST SYSTEM 423 Graphite Powder is used in specific areas in specialized coating applications. Graphite powder/epoxy coatings are occasionally applied to rudders, centerboards, and drysailed racers. They provide low friction coatings with increased scuff resistance and also provide UV protection.

I wonder, on a white bottomed hull, if using white pigment and West 420 aluminum powder in the epoxy mix would produce a white skid plate.
 
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