Solo learner build

[Mp214parks]

Carbon Innegra puddle jumper.

Ok. Here goes. This probably won’t be the most interesting read, but I figured I’d keep track of things as I blunder my way through this.

I borrowed a female mold from the local plastics store. It’s a 13’ prospector style (if such a thing exists). It’s not a hull design I’m especially interested in, but it’ll be cheaper to build than the canoes I’m used too. And worst case, my boys will stop asking to borrow my 18’ 6”. The main purpose of this build is to learn more and have a decent canoe to sell or bounce around in.



The fabrics I’m using might seem a little odd, but they are left overs from last year and I’m on a budget this winter. Unless I change my mine again, layup is: (outside to inside)

Clear gel coat
8 oz s glass
5.4oz carbon Innegra
4 oz Innegra
Foam ribs
5.4 oz carbon Innegra
8 oz s glass

A couple of firsts for me:
I’ll be using vinyl ester. So if anyone has pitfalls associated with that, I wouldn’t stop them!
Second, I’ve never used a female mold, particularly one with recurve ends. I don’t see a huge issue here as I wouldn’t think it any different than glassing the inside of a cedar strip.
Third, I’ve never shot gel coat, or any paint for that matter. So I’ll be relying on help from my auto body buddy.

For ribs I going to steal Muddy feet’s 3” tapered ribs from his beauty. I have 1/2” and 1/4” so I think I’ll put the 1/2” in the center area and the 1/4” towards the ends. I don’t quite have enough foam to do a football so it’ll have more ribs throughout.

I’m looking to start Nov 9 ish.

 

[Mp214parks]

Pictures.

 

[Alan Gage]

Wow, a local place to borrow a canoe mold from! Do you live in heaven?

Your plan sounds good but I'd probably skip the gel coat.

Alan

 

[BWCA66]

Gel coat spraying is tricky, watch your humidity too. We always do 3 passes with lower pressure to get up into the ends. Your goal is an even thickness based on the manufacturers recommendation, too thin or too thick and you'll have issues.
Vinyl ester is more forgiving than epoxy and I think easier to work with but smells worse and is very toxic. Wear a respirator and keep the kids away.
Are you doing a hand layup? If so I'm not sure how foam ribs will work.
Your layup seems like you will have a very heavy canoe. Gel coat adds 5 lbs itself and 5 layers of cloth will hold a lot of resin unless you are vaccum bagging.
​​​​​​​Good luck!

 

[Jim Dodd]

Wish I could Borrow a Female mold !

With that lay up, I doubt you will need the foam ribs.

If you do, you can add them when you pull the hull out of the mold, and test for stiffness. Or just partials where you need more stiffness.

Just finished a White water hull, for a friend.

I used 1 layer of 6 oz E-glass
2 layers of 6 oz S-glass
2 layers of 6 oz Kevlar.
One partial layer of Carbon over the football

It was a lot heavier than my Composite Pearl, Black Pearl.

It was plenty stiff even with a relatively flat bottom.

http://www.canoetripping.net/forums/...ar-black-pearl

​​​​​​​Jim

 

[BWCA66]

Tell me about your last pic, resin looks pretty uneven.

 

[Mp214parks]

Another thing I’m learning is to vacuum. I was going to vacuum bag on this build. But after doing a bucket seat in a vacuum bag, I decided I’ll practice more. The unevenness there is from the peel ply side. Also that camo fabric has a raised weave to achieve the look. So even with glass covering it, its not perfect. The glass in that pic is only 3 oz. I’m going to go with a heavier to try to hide that problem.

 

[muddyfeet]

Tell me about your last pic, resin looks pretty uneven.

I recognize it as a carbon-innegra fabric wovenin a camo pattern. It could be a neat look for the canoe and it will be fun to see it full-size.

This sounds like a good project. I agree with others that the layup seems too heavy. I’d ballpark that you are looking at a 50# finished boat. I guess that’s fine if it’s meant as a beater canoe, but it doesn’t take advantage of the strength/weight ratios of the carbon or innegra fibers. Most production foam-core composite boats use somewhere between 12-18 oz of total fiber weight in the layup. With your planned stack, you are right now at 31oz plus foam. With that layup you could skip the foam core and ribs completely and have plenty of stiffness. (Or keep the foam core, and leave out half the fabric stack- and half the weight!)

How are you going to wet the cloth: hand layup with vacuum bag or infusion? You’d need a good team working Fast to get everything wetted out and under vacuum before it kicks.

You might consider infusion, but definitely run some small-scale practice infusions first.

Spraying gelcoat in the mold can give a nice colored or cosmetic finish, but it does add weight without a whole lot of protection/strength. That’s awesome that you have a body guy to help you: should have no trouble spraying the thick gel- especially if they are used to laying down primer-surfacers.

It is really tricky to lay fiber in the skinny ends of a mold. Take your time and be sure to press it all the way with in so there is no void between the fiber and the end of the mold.

This is should be fun to follow: I’m certain you will learn a lot!

 

[BWCA66]

Think about this, if you lay it up in half's and overlap down the middle that will add strength and stiffness to the bottom and you will also get overlap in the "stems". Your first pic shows the mold at an angle, you can angle it even more to do each half.
FYI, don't let too much fabric hang over the edge of the mold, you'd be surprised at how that can cause it to pull away from the mold, especially problematic if you do use gelcoat.

 

[Mp214parks]

Sprayed clear gel coat into the mold today and did some touch up on another one while we were at it. Layup tomorrow !

 

[Mp214parks]

Layup finished.

 

[Jim Dodd]

Looks cool !

Was the 8 oz hard to wet out? Wondering more how tight the weave was ?

How long will you wait to pop it out of the mold ?

Oh and of course the weight ?

Sorry ! Builders are too curious some times !

Jim

 

[Mp214parks]

I wet out some of the 8 oz glass on a tile and got air bubbles trapped under it. So I opted for a standard weave six oz. it’s still in the mold. I was going to give it a day or two. I couldn’t remember what normal time is.

Also, I did some test work with vynilester and decided to stick with epoxy on a few more. The stems on this were difficult for me. We’ll see how they look but I might need to paint the ends black. I’m thinking there is probably air in there.

 

[Mp214parks]

I was planning to leave her in the mold a good 24 hours but I started messing with it this morning and before I new it, it was out. Layup is 6 oz glass, 6 oz carbon Innegra, 5 oz Innegra, 6 oz carbon Innegra, 6 oz glass. The weight is 26 #. I have some unsaturated ares at the gunwale line where there is tumble home. The plain Innegra is very difficult to drape because it is so thick per weight. I don’t think I’ll use that again. The stems are well saturated, but the weave is not even. I think the only option is to paint the stem and gunwale areas.

 

[Jim Dodd]

I really like the look of the camo ! Was that extra ?

Thanks for your insight on the plain innegra.
Was it 6 oz, S or E-glass ?

I know waiting a few weeks will help stiffen the hull, as the epoxy gets closer to full cure. Did bottom seem stiff enough ?

Gunnels ????

Cute daughter ! I'm sure she will enjoy it come warmer times !

Jim

 

[Mp214parks]

The camo weave is about $15 per yard more than regular twill weave carbon Innegra. It’s $40 per yard.

I was able to slice down into the unsaturated voids along the gunwale line and dob warm resin into them. A heat gun made complete saturation a quick deal.

I am trimming in epoxy soaked cedar. I knew I was pushing the envelope because of its softness. I guess we’ll see how it wears. I will say screwing on wooden gunwales is SO much easier than all the alternatives. I think in the future my canoes will be simple cherry or alder trim with an oil finish. Way faster an looks great. I was able to trim the entire canoe from a 2x6x8’ board. Have to epoxy and glass the bump caps for a little added wear resistance. I’ll be using black nylon webbing for the seats. Right now it’s 28#.

 

[Jim Dodd]

Looks even better trimmed out ! Do you have any open water to safely paddle in up there ?

Jim

 

[Mp214parks]

Yep. Nobody here complaining about global warming.

 

[Mp214parks]

And this ones a wrap. Weighs in at 34.5#. Trim cost me 10#.

 

[Jim Dodd]

Nice !
Any flotation ?

Jim