need help solo paddling ...

[Bob B.]

I am hoping some of you can offer me ideas ... I paddle with my chestnut prospector 15 foot. I can also use my Nova craft Pal or Cronje. I can no longer bend my right knee - kneeling is impossible. I need to sit and paddle and I fear I am not a strong enough paddler from the sitting only position when on a wilderness trip - long distances and less than ideal conditions.

If I trim my Prospector ( or other tandem) properly with gear towards the bow and my dog Jake midships, is it feasible to think about sitting in the stern of the boat and paddle sit and switch? I hate to think about padding this way, but the thought of not getting into the bush is worse. I have even though about using a Greenland style Kayak paddle - hard to imagine paddling my prospector with a double blade, but I want to really consider all options so I can still get into the back country.

Thanks in advance,

Bob.

 

[Marten]

Bob,
First let me say that I know how hard it must have been to even type the word "sitting" and how painful the thought of a kayak paddle must be. No LOL here. Back in 2009 we did the exploration up the "Minjim" in WCPP and I used that 18 foot Cii as a solo. Properly trimmed on gentler waters it was enjoyable paddling solo from the stern seat. I did load the canoe so that if conditions changed I could slip forward over the thwart and sit on my camp pack.

 

[memaquay]

I have never paddled on my knees, well, ok, if I'm running big white water I will. I paddle on the left, so my right leg is almost always extended, my left is usually folded under the seat, or just bent. You should have no problem paddling this way. If there is a big wind, just don't paddle.

Paddle heeled over some too. I do this even when I'm fully loaded for tripping. Don't think this would work from the stern seat though.

On the other hand, the guy who used to run the school club before me always paddled from the stern when he was solo. He sometimes had to put a lot of ballast in the front, but that's how he did it.

Not sure how a yack would push you, you would have to have one with an awefully long shaft.

Anyway, get out there, sit and paddle, you will probably surprise yourself. Decrease your mileage and expectations. It's hard to do, but sometimes we don't have a choice, due to the nasty but inevitable business of aging.

 

[Bob B.]

Thanks Martin - I appreciate your response. It is indeed with heavy hart I have to admit if I am to continue to paddle it has to be a different way - it is a deep blow for sure. Ever since our 32 day trip in WCPP - when I hurt the knee, I have not been the same. Even after a surgery, the knee will not accept being bent anymore.

Thanks for the post - I hope I get to see you at the 'Copia show in a few weeks.

Bob.

 

[Bob B.]

Memaqay,

Do you paddle a stripper chum? How wide is your boat? Could you paddle sitting with a dog and fish some too or would that be a bit too tender?

Bob.

 

[Waterdog]

Bob,

My knees are trashed from jumping out of planes and carrying heavy loads. I have two 16' prospectors and always paddled them from the bow seat with the dog up front and gear in the middle. That works for me sitting on multi day trips. I heel the boat over as well a lot and use a modified Ottertail which is comfortable for me. The stern position wouldn't work for me with the dog all the way up front, it would be too SQUIRRELY, but if you are keeping the dog in front of you and all your static gear/ballast all the way up front, it might work depending on the weight. Like Mem offered, I'd go out and paddle in different configurations from the sitting position and see what works best. Wait for the water to warm up though!

For me now, my dog is too old to go for more than one night. I am now using solo canoes and traveling with lighter gear, still sitting though because of these knees. But I move like the wind through rough stuff and ports now and my knees don't bother me much anymore. I should say too that I have tripped more then a few times with the dog in a solo canoe when she was younger and in the 70lb. range, but you'd need to leave the canvas behind to be comfortable.

Cheers,
Barry

 

[DanOver]

First, Mem and these other guys have forgotten more about canoeing than I will ever know. But I identified with what you were saying and wanted to encourage you.

I"m a 56 year old former paratrooper with the knees that go with that choice. I also shattered my heel 2 years ago and have some titanium hardware and less movement in that foot/ankle now. That said, I paddle sitting, kneeling, on one knee, off and on through any longer paddle. I need to keep switching positions to keep the joints from getting too stiff. I use a seat backer often times, especially when fishing. I also use a kayak paddle sometimes for power, though I prefer a single paddle. It seems your passion is to be out in the bush, not to be a canoeing purist. If so, "Do what you gotta do so you can do what you wanna do." as we said in Brooklyn. Maybe a low seat in a canoe with foot pegs to get some power. Don't hate on the double paddle, it has its uses, if only to get a fly out of a higher tree branch. Anything to allow you to keep getting out.

Last fall I entered the recreation category of a canoe race at a local club. I hooked a strap to the thwart to lock my feet against while seated with and used a 260 cm kayak paddle. I would have been wiped with a single paddle. I paddled for a straight 78 minutes in that position. I did well for using the boat I did, but when I got to the finish, my ankle and knees did not want me to stand up straight for a few minutes, and I almost fell over getting out of the canoe! Pretty funny. Old joints just need a work around. Find what works for you.

 

[Guest]

I am hoping some of you can offer me ideas ... I paddle with my chestnut prospector 15 foot. I can also use my Nova craft Pal or Cronje. I can no longer bend my right knee - kneeling is impossible. I need to sit and paddle and I fear I am not a strong enough paddler from the sitting only position when on a wilderness trip - long distances and less than ideal conditions.

If I trim my Prospector ( or other tandem) properly with gear towards the bow and my dog Jake midships, is it feasible to think about sitting in the stern of the boat and paddle sit and switch? I hate to think about padding this way, but the thought of not getting into the bush is worse

Bob, I have zero experience with Chestnut Prospectors, but I think either the Cronje or Pal would work in that guise, or perhaps, depending on your wingspan and paddling preferences, backwards from the bow seat. Both are symmetrical, and if possible I prefer the bow backwards style.

Both the Pal and the Cronje have the bow seat positioned well back from the stems. I have our Cronje set up so that I can paddle it backwards from the bow seat. There are some personal peculiarities to that bow backwards set up.

For physiological reasons I sit, and need a foot brace, whether paddling tandem stern or, more often bow backwards. And I prefer to be able to brace my knees comfortably against the gunwales.

So the peculiar Cronje outfitting has two foot brace bars, one for the stern seat, one for bow backwards. Those adjustable Wenonah foot braces are conveniently positioned so that either unused bar can be slid directly under a thwart or yoke, losing no gear storage space for packs or barrels.

P5010766 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

My knee spread doesn’t come close to the inwales when bow backwards, so the Cronje has mega knee bumpers for that seating position. Like having a foot brace I am far more comfortable seated when I can brace my knees against the (padded, reduced width) sides.

With a foot brace, knee bumpers and back band I can comfortably lock in on a 5 point stance while seated.

P5010764 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

The center of the Cronje bow seat is 6 feet from the bow stem, so it doesn’t need an absurd amount of trim weight forward, even empty-ish day paddling. I presume the Pal is similar, I’ve only paddled a NC Pal a few times.

The Cronje is 31” wide at the front of that backwards seat, so manageable. The Pal, being an inch narrower max beam should be even more managable. In that bow backwards guise the Cronje is an enjoyable canoe, and at 16’ 8” (Royalex length) it isn’t too much wetted surface to propel solo. The shorter Pal perhaps better as a solo.

I have even though about using a Greenland style Kayak paddle - hard to imagine paddling my prospector with a double blade, but I want to really consider all options so I can still get into the back country.

I am an inveterate double blader, again for old and beaten up physiological reasons. A deep Prospector wouldn’t be my first choice, but neither would a Greenland stick, and I’m curious why you specified that.

I have never used a Greenland stick, so whadda I know. I have used canoe length-appropriate double blade Euros to paddle canoes from pack boats to soloized tandems.

And again, whadda I know, I use a double long enough (260cm mostly) in our big tripping canoes to effect a low angle touring stroke. Which I can do all day long, even into a headwind.

I am told by the learned that I should be using a 230 and a (wet) vertical paddle stroke. Screw that; I’m not out there to impress anyone, I just wanna get there in the method I find most comfortable. Admittedly with an 8 ½ foot long stick paddle weight becomes a critical issue, and anything less than carbon fiber would now seem torture.

Seem like you have nearly endless options in your current canoes to experiment with, potentially including “soloizing” the Pal or Cronje with a single seat at your best preferred location.

Whatever you find or do, stern seat forward, bow backwards, soloizing a tandem, double blading when the headwinds get tough, if it works for you that’s all that matters.

For my aging and arthritic purposes custom comfort and efficiency outfitting reigns supreme, especially for long distances and less than ideal conditions. To that end if my canoe isn’t the most comfortable seat in the house, I still have work to do.

 

[memaquay]

The Chum is a boat that feels more tender than a flatter bottomed boat, like a prospector or Pal. If i had a dog along, i would probably opt for a bigger boat, your 15 foot prospector sounds like a good fit.

The best solo I have is a cedar strip raven. It's a John Winter's design, has kind of a bad rep in it's rubber formula as a slow and wet boat. However, in the stripper form it is neither and has a ton of room, could have a dog party in it. Moves along pretty good too.

I'm pretty sure my big mileage paddling days are over, hence my movement to motorized square sterns. However, I'm pretty sure i could manage 15k a day with minimal suffering, which is more than half of what i am used to.

 

[yellowcanoe]

Bob as we get creaky things change. I cant kneel anymore. The bionic knee isnt designed to fold that last five degrees I need So I sit
A footbrace is a godsend
I like the double blade body motion and do use it sometimes
And not sometimes. We're old enough to do what works for us. All that matters is we are out there and there are no canoe cops
Its been a long time since I used a Greenland blade. and that was in a little solo
It was neat to be able to double blade power forwars then switch to a subtle j stroke
My big mileage paddling days are done though I knocked off 10'miles upstream and down a few days ago
The rest were 6 mile outings which before would have annoyed me but now are fine
I do have to get out every hour because otherwise I become a fixed object

 

[lowangle al]

Too bad about your knee Bob, hopefully you can still get out there.

I think the stern seat is a good option for you, especially if you want to hit and switch. Correction strokes work well back there too, you get a lot more leverage when your J is behind the stern.The higher seat and narrow width back there make it easier to paddle and you can probably get maximum power. I would suggest you take an extra long paddle(66" approx.) as your spare for more leverage in wind.

 

[yellowcanoe]

I also think Bob that if you end your forward stroke T your knee: yup that far forward you will minimize the annoying switches
An ottertail is no good for that sort of paddling so if you really want to use it paddle smarter. Yep old fogies get up before the wind!
As we age we gotta play it smarter rather than work harder

 

[Bob B.]

Boy I am sure grateful for all the responses, was not sure I would get any really. You all have been helpful and are providing me with hope. I have to give Yellow Canoe's last post some thought. So maybe I should try using a bent shaft this spring and not bring my stroke all the way back into a J?

I can say I have to double and triple port on some trips. So being on the water early helps a lot, but on long trips I average about 1-2 miles per hour including ports. I take a short break mid morning for coffee and a snack or maybe some eggs. A couple of hours latter coffee and and lunch on a rock someplace. I try to set up camp by mid to late afternoon, start supper so Jake and I can fish, explore in the calm evening just before dark. Traveling this way is very satisfying, but another reason I go solo as I slow people up. 10 miles can be an all day event for me. I try to go like heck the first few days and get into the bush, base camp and day trip/fish/explore the area before packing up and getting after it again days later.

As much as I will miss my old familiar way of traveling - I am looking forward to tripping without all the pain of a screaming knee. I have even daydreamed about a tandem/solo 16 packboat for Jake and myself. We will see, maybe I can be a better sitting paddling and keep my beloved tandems - especially my prospector.

Bob.

 

[yellowcanoe]

You dont necessarily have to go bent shaft

 

[yellowcanoe]

I dont know what games my effin phone is doing
Sure bents are more efficient for the seated paddler but a bent with a traditional canoe is. just odd
Bringing your stroke back past your gip induces yaw
Just bring the stroke forward and end it sooner

 

[Black_Fly]

Bob, I have two bad knees. Kneeling is possible, but not easy or pain free. I use a foot brace in all my solo canoes. It helps immensely. I would also consider a long double blade paddle, like the BB Impression. Can you reverse your Prospector and sit backwards in the bow seat? You could put a small pack behind you and the bigger ones in the front with the dog. I do put my dog behind me at times, so that might be possible sitting as described.

I will add that bigger solo canoes can be difficult to trim when your packs lighten, especially if you need to use them to trim for your dog's weight. If your dog is a chihuahua it won't be an issue.

 

[Bob B.]

Black Fly,

I do paddle the canoe from the bow seat backwards. Currently I have the stern seat removed and a thwart in its place. I have the bow seat mounted just below the gunnels for a higher kneeling angle. Trim is usually not difficult in a symmetrical hull as I find them more forgiving but I do carry spare 20 L bags to fill with water and hang in bow or stern if the conditions change while underway for ballast.

I just got off the phone with Conor Mihell a bit ago. I was asking him the same question I have posted here. He recommended lowering my bow seat back to its original position - or perhaps a bit lower. That may help with stability as well as getting more power back into my stroke - might mean I need a shorter paddle. Also maybe bracing my feet against a pack or "digging" my heels in between the ribs of my canoe may help with getting more power as well. I am thinking one day this weekend I might dig a path through the snow to my shed and start playing with seat height on my canoe so when the water turns liquid again I will be ready to experiment.

Bob.

 

[Iskweo]

For what its worth, I dont kneel in a canoe. They have seats for a reason. That being said, I routinely use a 6 inch drop on my seat to give more stability. Some folks want the seat up tight to the gunwale so they can kneel and stick their feet under but I go the other way. I often paddle with both legs straight, spread to the sides. Or one straight and one bent, like Mem.

I also use water containers to shift trim but mine are usually five gallon pails ( yeah yeah, 20litre) and are only for day trips so far. I just dump the heaviest pack in the very forward end of the canoe and hope that is enough.

lower the seat, get out there and paddle. You will wonder what the heck you were worried about.

Christine

 

[Canotrouge]

If not kneeling, foot brace, hip blocks are really helpful in staying in control of the boat, especially if you encounter some rifles, waves or rapids. I kneel 99 percent of the time, my back just can handle the sitting position with legs in front of me. When soloing I often bring along a foam pedestal that I kneel from and that I can move anywhere I need to be in the boat, front to back left to right and vice versa.... Make for a really efficient way to try the boat on the fly!

 

[Odyssey]

My favourite paddling position used to be kneeling with the canoe well heeled, loaded or otherwise. It was absolutely joyful. It's been more than 15 years since I was able to do that comfortably. I eventually accepted the passage of time or whatever trick nature is playing on me, and looked for alternatives. Some of the things might be frowned upon by paddling purists but they don't have my knees. I installed a kneeling thwart hoping it would be a nice compromise between nuzzling down in the chine and sitting up on the seat. It has been only okay. My knees still don't like it much, although I'm kneeling "upright" with padding below. So I'll also sit on the KT testing its strength and fate. That's marginally better, so I shift up and down to rest my joints periodically. I've tried paddling my asym canoe backasswards from the bow seat. That's not bad but less than ideal. I still need to heel and trim in that position. What my body likes best is the narrower stern position, which means trimming with everything in the bow. There was a discussion some time ago about soloing from the stern and I don't remember what the final tally was; I was relieved to find out I am not the only one who couldn't care less how many "rules" I break, just so long as I can still find joy. Because quite frankly, when I go out paddling it is all about me.
Bob, don't do as I say and certainly don't do as I do, unless it works for you. Hold onto that joy.

ps I need a pack placed just under the thwart and just within reach of my foot extended out in front of me in the stern. That serves as a brace, and so have one leg bent and braced against the gunnel, the other mostly extended out in front of me braced against the pack. I switch leg positions however often it's required to keep them happy. I mostly tandem and so I've learned to paddle both sides to suit whichever she chooses that morning. That serves me well to solo as well. Also I've replaced J strokes with Pitch, Canadian, and Indian long ago.