Why do so many newbies have no fear?

[ppine]

Last time out I had some flat water paddlers on a river trip. Several of them had plenty of time in canoes but seemed to have little respect for moving water. A lady in her late fifties was talking about running some more difficult rivers in Oregon with some friends. "I have no fear of moving water" she announced one night after dinner. "I respect rapids but have no fear of them." That is the kind of person I will never run a river with again.

In Cliff Jacobsen's classic book on expedition canoeing he talks with some experienced veterans of Arctic rivers. The common thread was that they were well aware of the dangers of remoteness, cold water, and rapids. They were cautious as a group and prone to portage when in doubt. Maybe inexperienced people are just not smart enough to know when they are in jeopardy.

 

[DuctTape]

With technologically advanced safety items, I think many people in the backcountry (not just water) get "Gear Muscles".

 

[snapper]

I think part of the problem also comes about because those folks haven't developed the judgment skills necessary to be cautious. Of course, good judgment develops over time from bad decision making. You just have to hope you don't kill or maim yourself (or others) while you're learning about what to do, or not to do, in a given situation. When my daughters were learning to drive I always hoped their first accident was not life threatening but made them realize just how important it is to drive properly for the conditions. Thankfully the one who thought driving was just a walk in the park hit a patch of ice one night as she was just about home. The car did a 180 and it scared the living sh_t out of her. No one was hurt but it did what I'd hoped it would. She was a lot more cautious and less care free after that. She is now someone I'd drive with no matter what the conditions; although she could use a little more work in the canoe (LOL).

That's all for now. Take care and until next time...Be well.

snapper

 

[Alan Gage]

Like Snapper said, I think something bad has to happen, or nearly happen, for most people to truly understand the danger of something. Thankfully most of the time it's just that, a close call that you learn from. But some people never get a second chance to learn from their mistakes. Then people on internet forums can make jokes about them and say that it's Darwin at work when in actuality the biggest thing separating us from them is luck. And many people will skate through without anything bad happening and not quite understand what all the fuss is about.

I try to be careful but I know there are things that I do that I shouldn't do and the only reason I do them is because it's never gone bad. I'm sure there are also things that I do that I shouldn't do but don't even realize.

Alan

 

[Alan Gage]

I think there are also people who say they understand the dangers and are cautious but in actuality they only think they know the dangers and think they're cautious because that's how they've been told they should be. But they don't really "get it." I could probably fall into that category for some things.

Alan

 

[Mama]

Last time out I had some flat water paddlers on a river trip. Several of them had plenty of time in canoes but seemed to have little respect for moving water. A lady in her late fifties was talking about running some more difficult rivers in Oregon with some friends. "I have no fear of moving water" she announced one night after dinner.

Was the whiskey talking?

 

[Bearleealive]

"I respect rapids but have no fear of them."

Within the bounds of common sense, this is not that out there of a statement. I have entered into many rapids with a similar attitude, but do weigh each situation as to whether I should even try it or not. If is only that there is a chance of dumping, getting wet, and having to go for a swim, then I do not fear rapids, and go for it. If there is any chance of perilous danger that suggests I avoid it, then I don't run them. You would never advance at things without overcoming a fear of them.

 

[Iskweo]

I imagine that most of them have no real concept of the consequences of a critical mistake. I know the end result of hypothermia, frostbite, hunger, disease. While I have no fear of death, there are some nasty ways to die that I am not willing to go through. So I take pains to avoid them.Unless its EPIC. Then all bets are off.
I think that those who only trip on occasion and mostly dwell in the cities see the bush as a tame and relaxing place where even if there is a problem, all one needs do is call 911 on their handy cell phone. I see it quite differently. I have no one but me to rely on, and of course whomever is with me. Being conscious of that is very important and I think a lot of people dont see it. Not to be Capt Obvious, but you can die out there if you mess up.

Christy

 

[LF_tripper]

I have no fear of rapids, either - when I am walking around them...... which is how I deal with rapids that pose any danger whatsoever.
I also own a titanium spork, don't really like it, but it cost $12.50 + tax at MEC so I use it anyway.
I suppose I can't trip with certain people.....

 

[oldie moldy]

Hmmm...interesting question; why no fear? I'd like to suggest that it's a requirement of the species. Consider; for such a funny looking, weak things, humans have been spectacularly successful. Now it's true, our optimistic adventuring has resulted in frequent deaths but on balance, given our obsession with sex and the resultant crop of replacements, we've held our own. Our success is nearly a living example of the beginning advice given to someone who is interested in investing in wall street: Diversify. And brothers and sisters, have we ever!
But without a pretty much innate willingness to take risks, or perhaps like Alfred E. Newman's "What me worry?" we'd still be back there on the plains of Africa.

That's what I think anyway,

Rob

 

[Odyssey]

"Why do so many newbies have no fear?" Well generally speaking, I think thrill seeking has become synonymous with outdoor adventures. There have always been folks who travel in remote places looking for challenges in exploration, but nowadays it's about pushing boundaries, and has become packaged and promoted. It may be all about the adrenalin rush that comes with risk taking, more than the awe that comes with the natural surroundings. I see it as a personal choice. Most activities carry risks, it's just a matter of making informed choices. As far as canoe tripping goes, if we mitigated all risks we'd all end up at home in front of TV screens playing canoe tripping virtual reality video games instead of going out and really getting wet. I'm just an older fuddy duddy who prefers to be awed by nature, rather than be seriously tested by it. That's my choice. I understand there are others who prefer more thrills and spills. I guess that's theirs. I wish them luck, and a safe return.

 

[Rippy]

I think there are also people who say they understand the dangers and are cautious but in actuality they only think they know the dangers and think they're cautious because that's how they've been told they should be. But they don't really "get it." I could probably fall into that category for some things.

I gotta agree. While being told of the dangers of this and that you really don't realize the power of water tell you see the results. The first time I saw a alum canoe that had been wrapped around a rock sitting in front of a outfitter's shop was a real I opener. It had a sign hanging on it that said use the portage trail. A canoe filled with water is going to go where the current takes it and you aren't going to change it's mind. Stories of whole canoes getting sucked under sweepers are a little hair raising too. We live so far removed from the land in this day and age people have lost respect for the forces of nature. On a boy scout trip to the BWCA back in 1974 I experienced a strange event as we were setting up that tents on a high shelf. The wind came up out of a blue sky and blue hard enough to pick up two canoes and toss them out on to the lake. I had to lay spread eagle on the tent to keep it from blowing away. I would guess that it was blowing about 60 mph. Lasted about a minute. Ever since I have always tied my canoe.

That said, I have a healthy respect for dangers and obstacles and avoid them. However one of my goals in life is to not live in fear. Fear can grow and grow in your mind till you are imprisoned by it. It can take control of your life to the point that you stay home. I am all about challenging your fears and overcoming them in a safe way. Dave

 

[memaquay]

I've seen just about everything, and have to make risk management decisions for many people on a regular basis. Occasionally, I still make mistakes. People like to be challenged, and sometimes they need to be pushed above their comfort level in order to gain knowledge, skills and experience. Ideally, this is done in a situation where risk is mitigated by planning and safety precautions. However, in the great outdoors, decisions sometimes revolve around luck, both good and bad.

When I do solo trips, or trips with my buddy, I tend to take a lot of educated chances, because I can, and I'm not constrained by the thoughts of looking after a bunch of people.

 

[Bearleealive]

I think everyone here is a thrill seeker, in one form or another. The exhilaration of paddling into an area that is gobstoppingly gorgeous, a place where there is no other way of effectively getting to other than by canoe. The excitement of sighting a wolf, wolverine, grizzly, or lots of other wildlife. The adrenaline rush of running a set of rapids. These are all thrills we may seek, and a part of the reason for canoeing.

Of course, there is just getting away from it all. I know one of the main reasons I go into the backcountry, is for the rest it provides my brain. Something about being out with nature, allows me to let all the stress of things back home slip away. Maybe it is because there is nothing I could do about it anyway, I let it slip from my mind. But still, throw in some fun and exciting stuff, things with a high degree of calculated risk, and for me it just adds to this experience.

 

[Odyssey]

I suppose everything is relative. One person's risky situation is another person's bland experience. I think I'm living a richly rewarding life, full of fun and interest. It'd probably put many of you to sleep though. I tend to avoid pushing any envelopes, and am quite happy in my risk reduced world. I have a friend George whose comfort zone is far larger than mine. Even every day choices reflect our differing selves.
Brad - "Don't back the trailer up here, space is too tight. Park over there."
George - "Oh no, there's lots of room. We'll park here." (There was lots of room)
Brad - "Let's not bother with repairing the barn rafters. Too high up and awkward."
George - "No problem. I'm bringing in a Skyjack. It'll work great." (It worked great, no problem)
I don't think I'm negative or defeatist, just careful. But when do you take the step in one direction from careful to bland and boring, or in the opposite direction from careful to careless? I think that's just an individual point of view.
On the highway of life I must've pulled from the slow lane onto a back road. It'll be a slower less adventurous trip than some of yours, but I'll enjoy it nonetheless. As far as friends and family sharing my trip goes, I know that my friend George is always itching to take the wheel. He's always wanting to get this jalopy of mine back on the highway and into the fast lane of life, to "see what this baby can do." I appreciate that. Sometimes I need someone to give me a little push out of my comfort zone. But when that happens I always keep my eyes open and evaluate the risks.

 

[ppine]

Thanks to everyone for all of the responses. Mama hit one nail on the head with "the whiskey talking." I have known the lady in question for 35 years. She is outdoorsy but lacks experience. The river she wants to paddle in her 14 foot kayak is the Clackamas near Portland. That river probably has as many fatal accidents as any river in America

Maybe I am just gotten old and scary. In my rafting career I took some life threatening swims, got pinned, and did lots of Class Vs. Now I like canoes. Maybe people need to swim some rapids to get a feel for the power of the water. Maybe the only thing to really wake them up is to swim with a capsized boat.

 

[Guest]

One word answer- ignorance!

 

[Rippy]

I also own a titanium spork, don't really like it, but it cost $12.50 + tax at MEC so I use it anyway.
I suppose I can't trip with certain people.....

Kinda reminds me of a thread I started last winter just for fun. I don't think anybody took me serious though.

 

[Odyssey]

Kinda reminds me of a thread I started last winter just for fun. I don't think anybody took me serious though.

I remember the thread. I was giving LF's funny remark a wide berth. Some folks take gear way more seriously than me, so I'm backing away from the spork very slowly. (I'm kidding)
The more ppine describes the brave and fearless paddler, the less inclined I'd be to linger anywhere near her and her exploits. I'm inclined to agree that there's nothing like an up close and personal brush with trouble, to make one more acutely aware of one's mortality.