Old Town Penobscot Models?

[Guest]

I am taking Jason’s comment about “unloading” my Penobscot (I would slap him with my glove if he were nearby) to a separate discussion.

The four OT Penobscot models were similar in design appearance, yet very different canoes. Kinda wondering about folks impressions of the various Penobscot models.

Sorry Mike, I would love to pull the trigger on that bad boy but I have my spray covered Bell Northwind 16'6" in royalex. Admittedly not outfitted as elegantly!

Did you unload your penobscot solo'ized tandem?

Unload my Penobscot? Yes, every time I get to camp or the take out.

If you mean “sell” my beloved Penobscot, never! That Pensbcot is soloized with a wide contour seat well back of center, spray covers, sail, customized knee bumpers and etc, etc, etc. It was soloized too fit me and my gear loads like a glove.

A comfortable glove. I was discussing Penobscot models with a friend, comparing the P15 to the P16. He described the Penobscot 15 as feeling “sporty”. I described the Penobscot 16 as feeling “comfy like Grandma’s old Buick wagon”. Or in modern day automotive parlance, comfy like a well-appointed SUV, with enough AWD capability to handle the flats, mild whitewater or wind & wave.

I never had much love for the Penobscot 17, but don’t have a lot seat time in one. I had a lotta love for the (short lived) Penobscot 186.
18’ 6’ long
37 ½” max width, 34-ish inch waterline
21 ½” x 14 ½” x 21 ½”
75 lbs (spec)
I think the Penobscot 186 was a one-year-production canoe (2006?), and they didn’t make a lot of them. Another hen’s tooth from a unicorn, but dang I enjoyed that canoe.

 

[Mason]

I had a couple of Penobscots--green in 1981, and red in 2001. The green one was the old heavy duty Royalex, and it felt like a beast. I did paddle it down Hells Canyon (IV) solo after I had sold it to my brother, so it works. When I went to Alaska in 2001, I needed a big water river boat, and bought my second--it was lighter royalex by about 10 pounds, and was a delight. I bought a third seat, and took out the two tandem seats and added a thwart. I never knew there was a 18'6" model.

 

[Guest]

I bought a third seat, and took out the two tandem seats and added a thwart.

Similar with my Penobscot 16; soloized it makes a capable big boy big load tripper.

. I never knew there was a 18'6" model.

I think the 186 was only produced for one year, and OT didn’t make many. I recently discovered one for sale (not that I need another big tandem)

https://www.lancastercountymarine.c...ayaks-penobscot-186-ephrata-pa-17522-2653426i

My high regard for the P186 may be founded in one memorable trip where I had an experienced sailor as a bowman and fortuitous tailwinds for days on end.

That was in the days before we used real sails, but my bowman had a golf umbrella, and knew how to use it. He was very good at picking and keeping on windage routes, angling the umbrella and keeping us on a track that didn’t require constant paddle rudder action from the stern. He would occasionally request “Come just a hair to starboard”.

We not only flew down the bay effortlessly, but our umbrella-less companions were hard pressed to keep up while paddling.

 

[latremorej]

"I am taking Jason’s comment about “unloading” my Penobscot (I would slap him with my glove if he were nearby) to a separate discussion."

"It was soloized too fit me and my gear loads like a glove. A comfortable glove"

ouch! Glad I'm not in swinging distance of that P16!

Yes, Mike, I meant sell... just trying to figure out if you REALLY wanted to sell the Cronje. I guess what I was getting at, is do you need two solo boats. (But then there is the fact that it is still a capable tandem) I do realize how much you like that Penobscot, and all the effort you've put into making it juuust riiiight. Sorry for the thread drift over there on the classifieds!

the only one I have paddled is my P16. Which, like Mr Mcrea, I only paddle solo. I havent outfitted it out but it's a great boat!

Jason

Ps. And I still read over your thread about the custom P16 from time to time!

 

[Guest]

Yes, Mike, I meant sell... just trying to figure out if you REALLY wanted to sell the Cronje. I guess what I was getting at, is do you need two solo boats. (But then there is the fact that it is still a capable tandem!

Yeah, I dither a bit on actually selling the Cronje. I know it will sell on (ylleechh) Craigslist. It is a well appointed, comfortable multi-purpose canoe, and if I really thought I was likely to paddle it again anytime soon, in either solo or tandem guise, I’d keep it. I don’t see that need arising.

Do I need two dedicated solo boats? No. Not two. When I sell the Cronje we will have nothing but solo boats left. 15 of them.

I paddle, the wife paddles, my grown sons paddle. We “each” have a decked canoe with rudder, an RX tripper canoe with at least partial covers and an RX downriver day boat. Throw in a couple of composite lake boats and oddities and the right answer to how many solo canoes do I need is “Just one more”

A sub-40lb composite solo day boat for easy cartopping and carry. Just one more.

 

[goonstroke]

...
I never had much love for the Penobscot 17, but don’t have a lot seat time in one. I had a lotta love for the (short lived) Penobscot 186.
18’ 6’ long
37 ½” max width, 34-ish inch waterline
21 ½” x 14 ½” x 21 ½”
75 lbs (spec)
I think the Penobscot 186 was a one-year-production canoe (2006?), and they didn’t make a lot of them. Another hen’s tooth from a unicorn, but dang I enjoyed that canoe.

A buddy of mine has a 186, and he and I have raced (w/portages) in it. It's a great boat, but was the spec really 75 lbs? It feels at least 10 lbs heavier than my Rx Wenonah Champlain, which is nominally 75lbs. Maybe there was more than one iteration? I'd also have guessed it was deeper than 14.5".

Some of those 186's were black, which is an unusual and distinctive color for a royalex boat.

These days they're calling the polyethelene 164/174 boats "Penobscot", but those obviously don't count.

 

[Guest]

A buddy of mine has a 186, and he and I have raced (w/portages) in it. It's a great boat, but was the spec really 75 lbs? It feels at least 10 lbs heavier than my Rx Wenonah Champlain, which is nominally 75lbs. Maybe there was more than one iteration? I'd also have guessed it was deeper than 14.5".

Dimensions and weight taken from a 2006 Old Town catalog. That was before a had a hanging shop scale, so I never actually weighed it.

I had a couple of Penobscots--green in 1981, and red in 2001. The green one was the old heavy duty Royalex, and it felt like a beast.
When I went to Alaska in 2001, I needed a big water river boat, and bought my second--it was lighter royalex by about 10 pounds

The mandated changes in Royalex manufacturer in 1990-91 resulted in some oddball RX sheets for a few years, but that wouldn’t have accounted for such a weight difference in 2006.

The “spec” in Old Town weights might as well have stood for “speculative”. I weighed a friend’s Appalachian; speced in the catalogs at 67 lbs his weighed in at 80lbs and the only post-factory outfitting on it is skid plates. Another friend had an OT Pack that had to weigh close to 50 lbs.

OT’s weights seemed to be further off the mark than most other manufacturers. Maybe they were less finicky about the Royalex sheets they received. I heard an industry-insider tale about manufacturers refusing RX sheets that did not meet their specifications and another (unnamed) manufacturer willing to accept whatever they received.

 

[Mason]

If I remember right, the 2001 Penobscot was listed at 57 pounds, and that seems about right. I've weighed my MR Courier at 59 pounds, and the Penobscot seemed similar. Again, if I remember right, OT advertised their boats as being lighter than the earlier boats--anybody remember anything like that?

Yeah, the Pack was advertised at 30 pounds. 50 is a bit much.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

IIRC, my P16 showed 62 lbs on the scale, after subtracting my weight. And that was with three seats. What a great boat!

 

[Guest]

The Penobscot 15. Described as feeling “sporty”, is another Penobscot model OT didn’t make a lot of, or at least a canoe that changes hands between discerning friends more often than they appear for sale. I have not seen one listed in years; people keep them, and there’s a reason.

Length: 15’
Width: 29 ½” to 30 ½” depending on gunwale material.
Depth: 18”/13 ½”/18”
Weight: 49 lbs (ha ha) to 54 lbs

My recollection of the Penobscot 15 is that the hull bottom was not only narrower than the P16, it was also slightly more rounded, resulting in the “sporty” feel to some folks. Better described as “Tender” for my big boy purposes, but I never had opportunity to paddle one with a gear load.

A Penobscot 15 is still a decent early 90’s RX solo canoe choice. At the right price I’d buy one and tweak it, seat depth and position, for my purposes.

Anyone have history with the Penobscot 15?

 

[LanceR]

Hey Mike, do you have a pdf copy of a catalog or anything similar for the 18.5' Penobscot? I may have found a unicorn ranch where one is in the pasture.....

Best regards to all,


Lance

 

[Guest]

Hey Mike, do you have a pdf copy of a catalog or anything similar for the 18.5' Penobscot? I may have found a unicorn ranch where one is in the pasture.....

I have a 2006 Old Town catalog from which the specs above were taken but no scanner or pdf.

Penobscot 186.
18’ 6’ long
37 ½” max width, 34-ish inch waterline
21 ½” x 14 ½” x 21 ½”
75 lbs (spec)

Old Town’s 2006 catalog was skinny on information. What little I did not include above, per that 2006 catalog, matching what I recall seeing - all of the 186 Penobscots came with black anodized aluminum gunwales, large polyethylene decks with grab handles, nylon webbed seats and ash thwarts and yoke.

The P186 was (all terms relative) a big, fast, all-around capable Royalex tripper. If the hull and aluminum gunwales on the one in the unicorn ranch pasture are in good condition at worst it might need some thwart, yoke and seat work.

It is an uncommon find used. I’ll keep my fingers crossed that your pasture find is for sale cheap, with easily repaired or replaced decaying brightwork and a good RX hull and gunwales. Keep us posted.

EDIT: Some Google image photos of the P186. The one we tested did not have the optional center seat in place of the yoke.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Old...Bw#imgrc=qVicbflyZt-rmM&imgdii=CN0vydBNl5BhyM

 

[LanceR]

Will do, Mike. I'm anxiously awaiting news as to whether it is what I hope that it is and that it is still available. I did find this:

https://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/old-town-penobscot-184-t4129.html

And this which may help as a visual reference since I don't have any pictures of the boat in question:

https://www.lancastercountymarine.c...e-co-penobscot-186-ephrata-pa-17522-10256282i

If it's available for the price I heard and is in good shape I'll risk sleeping in the camper for a few nights and get it. It is over three hours away but I can live with that.

Best regards to all,


Lance

 

[ppine]

I have been tempted to buy a 174 several times. The 186 would be even better. I like big tripping boats. My all-time favorite was the Sawyer Charger at 18'6". It was deep, it had speed and rocker. It could haul some gear. I had a kevlar boat built in 1978, every early. It finally started to fall apart.

 

[Guest]

I have been tempted to buy a 174 several times. The 186 would be even better. I like big tripping boats. My all-time favorite was the Sawyer Charger at 18'6". It was deep, it had speed and rocker. It could haul some gear. I had a kevlar boat built in 1978, every early. It finally started to fall apart.

I agree the Penobscot 186 would be a better big tripping canoe, and think I’d still rather have the Sawyer.

The RX 17’ OT Tripper (17’ 2” long x 37” wide x 15” deep) is enough of a beast at the (haha) speced weight of 80lbs. The poly OT Discovery 174 (17’ 4” x 36” wide x 14” deep) seemed a lot heavier than the Penobscot 17. Yet somehow OT speced the weight of the Disco 174 at 83lbs. No way that Disco is only 3lbs heavier.

I wish I had had a hanging scale in the shop back then, ‘cause I’m calling bull on Old Town’s Disco 174 weight.

Comparing the speced 16lb weight difference between an RX Penobsot 16 (58lbs) and the poly version Disco 164 (74 lbs) seems more in line with reality. Anyone have a weight on their Disco 174?

While we are home and shop sheltered a thread on catalog specification and actual canoe weights would be interesting.

Even excluding the 80lb Appalachian and the 50lb Pack I don’t recall ever weighing a plastic canoe that wasn’t heavier than spec. Some of the composite canoes, especially more modern ones, come in much closer to the mark.

 

[Guest]

A Pnobscot 16 has been on my wish list (9written faintly in pencil) for a long time. My on;y tandem is a novacraft pal and in hindsite, I thing I wouls have preferred a Pnobscot. I have installed a solo seat in my pal behind the front seat facing backwards-so it has 3 seats. Paddles nice as a solo.

 

[LanceR]

Well, I was beginning to think that the information grapevine had gotten caught in a drought but word has filtered back to me that the canoe is still available but with no other info yet. Trying to get a phone number, pictures etc has been both frustrating and, so far at least, futile. But at least that little bit of info gives me some hope. I'll keep plugging along and see what develops. I sure hope that it is in nice condition and that it doesn't look like it got air dropped without benefit of a parachute.....

Best regards to all,


Lance

 

[ppine]

Bell Canoe and Northwind and still making the 186. How about one in kevlar. It is my dream boat.

 

[LanceR]

Bell Canoe and Northwind and still making the 186. How about one in kevlar. It is my dream boat.

New Kevlar boats might as well be made of Unobtainium. Both are way above my budget.....

Best regards,


Lance

 

[Guest]

Turtle, one nice thing about the Penobscot 16 is that Old Town made a lot of them. I’d bet that OT made as many P16’s as P15’s, 17’s and 185’s combined.

If I found another Penobscot 16 at my usual Scot’s desire - for sale cheap with rotted brightwork but intact hull and vinyl gunwales - I’d snap it up, gut it and rebuild & soloize it as a duplicate big boy big load solo tripper.

I could probably shave 5lbs off the current one with lighter weight outfitting, maybe more if it didn’t come with awful kevlar felt skid plates.