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ISO niche day-boat suggestions

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Having recently sold two large boats you should have enough space and money for a lightweight solo.

Do you have a revolving fund where the proceeds will go for your next hull?

The two of you are sure jonesing to spend my beer money. I have been pondering a lightweight composite solo for several years as my knees and back got worse, and been whittling down the choices and preferences, and finally contemplating some honest assessment and niche-fill need.

3K-ish for a new carbon/kevlar lightweight canoe? The Scots in me staggers back, and it doesn’t help when Willie finds a used Wenonah Prism for $400.

In honest assessment I do not need another river tripper. It isn’t especially light, but I don’t portage much and for most tripping I love everything about my soloized RX Penobscot with spray covers (and sail). Equal praise for the Kevlar Monarch and our other ruddered, decked canoes with sails for open water tripping. The RX Freedom Solo and Odyssey 14 are both excellent rocky river day boats.

One niche remains to be filled; a 14.5 to 16 foot lightweight solo for gentler lake and estuary day paddling.

Something light enough to toss on and off the truck at a whim. Something I can use a small sail on, which solo sensibly means something with a rudder. Something with a high enough seat that my fat arse/bad knees can still enter and exit without agony, but with enough primary stability to pass my “grab-the-cooler-from-behind-the-seat” test.

Sounds more and more like some kind of lightweight decked canoe or, gasp, composite “rec” kayak, and I might need to find the right used hull and rebuild/outfit it to my specs.

Ideas?
 
Tom Mackenzie of Loon works used a lateen sail and held a paddle for rudder and steering
Look for a used Lotus Dandy
 
Tom Mackenzie of Loon works used a lateen sail and held a paddle for rudder and steering
Look for a used Lotus Dandy

At 13’ 7” x 30” a Dandy is only a little shorter than I’d prefer. Rigging a sail thwart is easy, installing a rudder and controls less easy. I don’t happen to have a spare rudder in the shop and Feathercraft is defunct.

We have sails on most of our tripping canoes and do the paddle blade rudder action. And we have sails and rudders on all of our decked boats. The difference in sailing ease and efficiency with a rudder is remarkable. If a lightweight day use boat comes to pass it will have a rudder, and I prefer it come designed that way instead of me retrofitting one.

So this isn't really the boat you described but it seems like it would be a good one to spend your money on nonetheless. I'm guessing once you have a 30 pound boat you'll find it hard to use your others and this one could fill a few different roles.

I have looked (and lusted) at a couple of Savage River canoes, and really like the fact that they willingly customer customize the boats they build.

The Savage River Loon dang near meets my target criteria of lightweight-ruddered-day use hull.

http://www.savageriver.com/kayaks/loon

13’ 6” is again a little shorter than I’d like, but a sail mount would be easy to install, and I could have them customize the deck height, seat and cockpit if needed. But the base model glass and kevlar Loon runs $4150 and the rudder option another $375. I need to see one, and maybe at least sit in it.

Fortunately Savage River is Oakland MD and I have kin in the same town. Unfortunately that base Loon is $4750 with tax. I’d need to sell a few more boats.
 
4K+ for a new ruddered day paddling boat, or find something used and rehab/convert it?

Given my druthers I’d rather find some used composite rec kayak of agreeable dimensions already equipped with a rudder and controls, and retrofit a seat and etc closer to decked canoe design. We have done that as solo conversions with raised seat in several of our 16+ foot decked trippers. Left to right 70’s era OT Sockeye, Hyperform Optima and Phoenix Vagabond.

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=i...0i8i30j0i24.hHFdzr0HlpE#imgrc=-BSF46-h1qYF8M:

My “Holy Grail” in such kayak to deck canoe conversion was the long discontinued unicorn Wilderness Systems Pamlico 145T Pro. That boat was 15’ 1” x 30” max, and under 40lbs in kevlar with the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] seat removed. A later version was rebadged the Pamlico Lite

The T-Pro was a composite version of the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] generation plastic P145T, which soloized is itself a wonderful sailer and pocket decked tripper (my wife’s favorite), and not a unicorn used. But it is 60+ lbs of plastic.

I guess I need to do some research on lightweight composite rec kayaks with rudders, so I know what the choices are and know what to search for used.

Criteria: Partially decked/open cockpit, 14 to 15 feet long, 30-ish inches wide, with rudder, 40-ish lbs or less. Could be a tandem I’ll convert to a dedicated solo with an improved seat.

Any ideas?
 
Mike, I think you're describing what I've been looking for, with an upcoming Alaska trip in mind. Easy Rider's TSL-1. They make it in kevlar now.
 
Mike, I think you're describing what I've been looking for, with an upcoming Alaska trip in mind. Easy Rider's TSL-1. They make it in kevlar now.

While I remember this discussion, and would love to find one cheap and convert it into a dedicated decked solo tripper with sail, I don’t think the TSL-1 is on my list lightweight of day boats.

http://www.canoetripping.net/forums...l-discussion/45238-the-easy-rider-decked-boat

The TSL-1 appearance screams 1970’s

https://www.easyriderkayaks.com/tsl-1.htm

Maybe if I could find some corduroy bell-bottoms, suede platform river shoes and a crushed velvet PFD.
 
Mike--if you're serious, post a want ad in or cruise the Seattle craigslist. I've seen them for sale in the area over the years when I lived back there. While looking, I came across some other niche items you might like
 
While I remember this discussion, and would love to find one cheap and convert it into a dedicated decked solo tripper with sail, I don’t think the TSL-1 is on my list lightweight of day boats.

http://www.canoetripping.net/forums/...er-decked-boat

The TSL-1 appearance screams 1970’s

https://www.easyriderkayaks.com/tsl-1.htm

Maybe if I could find some corduroy bell-bottoms, suede platform river shoes and a crushed velvet PFD.

Thanks for dredging that old thread up, Mike.

Funny thing - that boat is back on my BOLO list, but not as a potential solo this time. With the Alaska trip in the planning stages, it stands out as a top contender for tandem paddling on inside passage waters. I watched an older couple (slightly older than me) finesse one through a technical and wavy series of long class 2+ river last year, and was impressed with how well it handled. I can deal with the 85 lb weight for this adventure, but I note that they now list a Kevlar version at 66 lbs.
 
Steve, you might want to keep your eye out for an old OT Berrigan. I have never seen a TSL-1 in person, but have seen a couple old Berrigans.

https://www.google.com/search?q=pho...AgHEAE&biw=1280&bih=881#imgrc=B7LWACwKl1Rr7M:

Old Town’s 1970’s catalogs billed the Berrigan as “Designed for rough water cruising. . . .highly stable yet maneuverable. . . .”

Very similar design, different dimensions.

Berrigan
16’ long, 33 ½” wide, 85 lbs (in glass), cockpits 21” x 17”

TSL-1
16’ 6” long, 37” wide, 86lbs (in glass), cockpits 23 ½” x 26 ½”

The biggest difficulty might be in finding skirts and center storage covers, especially for the TSL-1’s oversized cockpits.
 
Mike, I suspect that I may know where one of those Berrigans resides, although I have never been able to stop and get a closer look. Next time I'm driving through that little town, I'll have to check it out. I kind of doubt that it's being used anymore....if it's still there.
 
John Berry, the original owner of Millbrook Boats and the designer of many classic whitewater hulls, co-designed the decked Berrigan (with his longtime tandem race partner, Bob Harrigan) as both a whitewater slalom canoe and a downriver wildwater canoe -- later called a combined class canoe in racing lingo. He made them in S/Kevlar considerably lighter than Old Town's 85 lbs. The canoe was named after the "wild" Berrigan brothers, who were political activists and agitators in the '60's. A Millbrook Berrigan would be a rare find.

Millbrook's 1971 sales literature described it thusly:
"Designed as a comfortable, high-performance whitewater canoe by Bob Harrigan (6'4") and by John Berry (6'3") who, having retired from serious racing, wanted something other than pregnant surf boards (slalom C2's) for all-around river cruising. This canoe proved too popular for a one-man production line, so that there are several commercial versions of it. Options such as a third center cockpit (oval or round), or a center cargo hatch opening are also available."

Here is a picture:

getimage.php


To confuse things, Berry later designed what he called the "Open Berrigan C2", which had one large open cockpit. It was 16' x 32.5" and weighed 60 pounds in standard layup in 1971, which wouldn't yet have included Kevlar. John's description:

"This is an attempt at the "all-everything" canoe. Lake, pond, and flat water, singles, doubles, or with the whole family. Sit or kneel. Regular, lipped cockpit rim surrounds the 10' long open deck. A plastic-coated steel cable threaded through a soft plactic garden hose is held under the outside of the rim with a ski-binder. When you're ready for whitewater, simply release the binder and slip the two-sleeved herulite deck between the hose and rim, clamp the binder, and presto, a white-water Berrigan (note: deck and ridge pole extra. Leg straps and foot braces also extra on this model.)"

I don't know whether Old Town made the closed or open Berrigan, or both.

There was also a 14' x 24" x 25 lbs. Open Berrigan C1. CBoats.net says "few made."

Here are Berry (bow) and Harrigan in their pre-Berrigan days. Berry had preternaturally long arms and powerful biceps, a perfect physical specimen for whitewater bow (or solo) paddling in both big pushy and technical waters.

JohnBerry1sml.jpg.JPG
 
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A plastic-coated steel cable threaded through a soft plactic garden hose is held under the outside of the rim with a ski-binder. When you're ready for whitewater, simply release the binder and slip the two-sleeved herulite deck between the hose and rim, clamp the binder, and presto, a white-water Berrigan

Interesting description of the spay skirt. I wonder how well this system worked. I have been toying with the idea of making a spray cover for my canoe and have wondered whether a line or strap threaded threw a pocket sewn into the perimeter of the spray cover could be held under the gunnels with tension alone, perhaps with by tying a trucker's hitch or or using a ratchet or alligator buckle.

Sorry for the thread drift.
 
Originally posted by Glenn MacGrady View Post

"A plastic-coated steel cable threaded through a soft plactic garden hose is held under the outside of the rim with a ski-binder. When you're ready for whitewater, simply release the binder and slip the two-sleeved herulite deck between the hose and rim, clamp the binder, and presto, a white-water Berrigan"

Interesting description of the spay skirt. I wonder how well this system worked. I have been toying with the idea of making a spray cover for my canoe and have wondered whether a line or strap threaded threw a pocket sewn into the perimeter of the spray cover could be held under the gunnels with tension alone, perhaps with by tying a trucker's hitch or or using a ratchet or alligator buckle.

I'm sure the open Berrigan's 10' long cockpit had a lipped coaming all around the rim, just like a kayak or C1, so the spray cover cable would not be held just by tension alone. Maybe tension alone could hold a lightweight cover underneath a canoe with pronounced outwales, but I'm not sure I'd trust it in big water or big wind conditions.

In fact, as a matter of personal experience and preference, I don't like spray covers for those conditions, because they become downright dangerous entrapments if they come off in a big rapid. I had one custom made for my MR Explorer 40 years ago, but soon ditched it as cumbersome extra weight, a hassle to put on and off, a producer of claustrophobia in heavy water, and potentially dangerous. (Although it did prevent my swimming canoe from wrapping around a rock at the head of class 5 Coal Mine Falls on the California Eel in 1981.) I never wanted any sort of fabric spray cover since. I just bailed open canoes and bought decked canoes and kayaks, too.
 
I’ll pass, but I believe that Chip had a Latvija kayak and knows something of the company history.
 
ISO day tripper niche boat dreaming continues. Maybe a SOT

I know that may be canoeist anathema, but I have started to think about some composite SOT as a day tripper hull, something low seated, but narrow enough to straddle the hull with both legs and simply stand up at shallow beach landings.

The only SOTs I have experience with were a horrible, wide, no-place-to-get-a-grip PITA to get myself out of, and that was when I was younger and more limber.

I know nothing of composite SOT design, and am probably on the wrong place to ask, but, any ideas?
 
The Epic V5 and Stellar S14S come to mind. But I don't actually know anything about them.

Alan
 
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