deciding which boat to take...

[Chansta]

I'm blessed to have two boats. One is a 1994 royalex Dagger which is 59 lbs. The other is a Nova Craft Fox Solo 14 which is considerably lighter and easier to portage.

I'm planning a flat water trip to either the adirondacks or eastern KY in the near future. There are pros and cons for each boat. I will preface by saying I'm not amongst the most experienced paddlers on this site. The trip would be a flat water camping/ fishing trip.

Here are the pros and cons (in my limited experience) of each water craft

Dagger Reflection 15:
Pros:
better primary stability
greater capacity for gear
more durable hull material (not an issue for flatwater)
greater confidence should a speedboat rush by (some people don't think no wake zones are a thing)


Cons:
more difficult to portage/heavier
slower, (I am still experimenting with trim)


Fox Solo:
Pros:
faster
easier to portage (very easy, actually)
more fun to paddle

Cons:
primary stability makes fishing/ moving around more difficult for a beginner
less capacity for gear (still enough)

If you were new.. which would you choose?

 

[yellowcanoe]

Fox.. Definitely. In the Adirondacks there are many motorless lakes. I am betting your first visit will be St Regis Canoe Area, the Oswegatchie River or Little Tupper ( William C Whitney area). and Lake Lila or Bog River Flow ( Lows Lake)

Not all are portageless. You will notice when you get here that many ADK paddlers use very light craft that are 13-15 feet long and weigh 20-30 lbs. because some of the best routes have long carries. ( over a mile). Little Tupper does not but if you do the loop Little Tupper to Lila there will be some long ones.

Now if you want to stick to bigger lakes and do for example you may consider the Dagger. Ie you are doing the Saranacs( middle and Lower). Doing the Upper requires the Bartlett Carry.. another lengthy one. Or Long Lake to the Crusher on Rt 3 which requires 1.25 miles around Raquette Falls.
Not all ADK carries are cart friendly. Unless you have really up do date beta and familiarity with the route don't consider a cart.

Really no need to bring a houseful of gear. We can go over a suggested gear list if you like. Of course as fishing is a goal, and I don't know much about that, we need to find lakes that actually have fish. What month? May is good. June has blackflies. July skeeters, August stable flies. Ice out is early May so you might want to think of what you mean by near future.

I have paddled KY once,, Green River so I really know nothing of there.

 

[lowangle al]

If the water is cold I would go with the bigger boat for safety, especially if you are not confident in using high and low braces.

 

[Odyssey]

Sounds like you have 2 future trips to plan for. I'd plan each trip around each chosen craft, and if I have a say in this I'd suggest starting with the comfy cruiser Dagger. Pack and plan for camping and fishing in equal measure. Paddling and portaging not so much. Call it a base camp type trip. Your confidence will grow with this first trip. Go light and portable the next time with the Fox. Enjoy camp/fish activities in that too, but with more focus on maneuverability. Move camp. Spend some time going from a to b etc. Troll as you go.
Travel with the Fox. Stay put with the Dagger.

 

[yknpdlr]

I agree with YC on all points. There are many paddle to camping opportunities, including for good fishing in the Adirondacks. Don't let short (or long) portages discourage you too much. Lighter weight and good planning is best. And what better way to learn how to handle a more "responsive" craft than actually paddling it, whatever the condition? As YC says, not all portages are cart friendly, but many, even longer ones, are fine for wheels. With a little more research on specific routes, (or help from folks here or on adkforum.com), you can make the proper decision for access or portage.

There are formal "campgrounds" (drive-to with services), or much more primitive choices to make. Compared to many other states, NY is surprising pretty easy in regard to regulations and finding free less formal backcountry tent campsites, either primitive established sites (with "camp here" signs, most with fire rings and privies), or allowing truly primitive camping at non-estabished wild sites you may like (learn about the 150 foot rule first). Just follow LNT principles and you will be good to camp most anywhere.

Note that the large lake region of the Saranacs technically encompass a paid "campground" for its lakeside sites, which you must reserve in advance. With few other exceptions, almost all other attractive wilderness paddling locations allow totally free for camping sites with no pay or pre-reservation needed. Be sure to check out the NYSDEC web page for specific regulations,and places to go, and please follow LNT where ever you go.
https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/41282.html
https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/7872.html

There a couple of recommended books you may like to explore:
Adirondack paddler's Guide, by Dave Cilley (get the accompanying map too)
https://www.canoeoutfitters.com/products/maps-guidebooks
Adirondack Paddling: 60 Great Flatwater Adventures, by Phil Brown

Here are a few suggested routes from Dave Cilley (there are many others):
https://www.canoeoutfitters.com/trip-planning/routes

 

[Robin]

I would take the Fox to the ADK's and stick to smaller lakes. I would avoid motor boat lakes, too many nice options on small intimate ADK lakes, no need to deal with wakes and over-used campsites. Hug the shoreline, have easy access to some dry clothes and your good to go. Try not to overload the canoe, a solo traveler can go fairly lite if they avoid all the extra stuff you will never use.

Lake Lila is a beautiful lake, well worth the trip. If the wind is there, you can easily hug the shore line. It has some great campsites and a day paddle on Shingle Shanty creek is something that Fox is made for.

If need be, you can paddle back to the car for extras, store bought firewood, dry or warmer cloths, more booze...

 

[Guest]

It would depend on the type of trip and gear load.

If I were doing a trip with no portages, or a short level portage and a gear load of camp comforts, I’d probably use the Reflection. Additional factors might include personal experience in either canoe and stability confidence in choppy water if on a larger lake.

If I were doing a smaller waters pond hopping trip with lots of carries and a lighter gear load probably the Fox.

It’s not just motor boat wakes; even a small lake can get wave choppy depending on the topography, wind speed and direction. Little Tupper mentioned above is only 6 miles long and a mile wide and can get scary choppy.

Hugging the shoreline can be a good idea, depending on the wind direction, but on a lake with lots of coves and embayed shoreline can turn a crow-flies 5 miles to camp in a 10 mile trip.

If you were new.. which would you choose?

Most folks here have decades of tripping behind them, and have either settled on the style trip they prefer, or have the experiences to do either a light canoe, light load multi-portage trip or a loaded lake glamper with equal confidence.

If you are new enough to multi-day trips you may have not yet discovered your personal “sweet spot” in tripping preferences. I like this advice:

Sounds like you have 2 future trips to plan for. I'd plan each trip around each chosen craft, and if I have a say in this I'd suggest starting with the comfy cruiser Dagger. Pack and plan for camping and fishing in equal measure. Paddling and portaging not so much. Call it a base camp type trip. Your confidence will grow with this first trip. Go light and portable the next time with the Fox. Enjoy camp/fish activities in that too, but with more focus on maneuverability. Move camp. Spend some time going from a to b etc. Troll as you go.

 

[dougd]

One lesson you might learn along the way is which boat NOT to take for the journey. I've taken a few I thought would fill the bill only to realize in a few feet from the put in it wasn't. Tucking into coves and following the shoreline makes for a longer journey as was mentioned but it's just another lesson learned.

dougd

 

[JackL]

Hi,
When you decide where you will be paddling, let us know, and if it is the Adirondacks, and in particular the Fulton Chain; having done the 90 miler for the past thirteen years, and staying an extra day to paddle other lakes, I can describe in detail a lot of the portages you might be taking.
Someone mentioned Lake Lila, and other then the torturous road into it, it is a perfect place to camp and paddle

Jack L

 

[yellowcanoe]

Don't be afraid of the Lila Road.. Too many people negotiate it successfully( it is way better than my roads around home). It does have what I read on Facebook of as an awful portage to get there of 1/3 mile. For us used to portaging this was a city walk. But those that moan mostly had heavy boats and brought a roomful of gear.

Also take a look at the new and so far comparatively undiscovered and free Essex Chain of Lakes. Requires a portage to get to. https://www.dec.ny.gov/lands/91888.html

While the 90 miler route is beautiful it is full of large lakes that in the summer see heavy motorboat use and there is competition for campsites and you have to reserve if you want to camp on Middle and Lower Saranac.. I have done it in May.( used to live there)

 

[Guest]

While the 90 miler route is beautiful it is full of large lakes that in the summer see heavy motorboat use and there is competition for campsites and you have to reserve if you want to camp on Middle and Lower Saranac.. I have done it in May.( used to live there)

In the Adirondacks the season-of-visit matters, especially at easier access points.

See ALSG’s August trip report and a full parking lot/most sites taken at Little Tupper.

http://www.canoetripping.net/forums/...r-lake-8-1-8-3

Versus an early October launch there, when schools were back in session and the only other car in the lot was a friend’s. September after Labor Day might have worked almost as well.

http://www.canoetripping.net/forums/...wo-part-report

Closer to the “shoulder seasons” even the day of the week and arrival time matters. At a launch with easy lake access there can be gobs of day paddlers on the water; an earlier AM put in is better, as is avoidance of Fri-Sat-Sun and even Monday on long holiday weekends.

 

[yknpdlr]

Don't be afraid of the Lila Road.. Too many people negotiate it successfully( it is way better than my roads around home). It does have what I read on Facebook of as an awful portage to get there of 1/3 mile. For us used to portaging this was a city walk. But those that moan mostly had heavy boats and brought a roomful of gear.

When Lake Lila itself was first opened up to the public, the 5 mile gravel access road in was gated and was not driveable anyway. My wife was into visiting adirondack Great Camps at the time and wanted to see Nehasane Lodge on the western end of the lake. Our only choice was to hike in with backpacks, but no canoe. I had been there myself previously via a different bushwhack route and the lodge was a single large impressive interconnected structure with several out buildings. We learned that just two weeks before my wife's trip, the state had razed the main lodge by burning it down. We went anyway and hiked the entire road. The ash remains of the lodge were still there, along with large number of still standing multi-story brick chimneys, with fireplaces on each floor. The site was bulldozed over and smoothed into a grassy hump later that summer.

While the 90 miler route is beautiful it is full of large lakes that in the summer see heavy motorboat use and there is competition for campsites and you have to reserve if you want to camp on Middle and Lower Saranac.. I have done it in May.( used to live there)

Having raced the 90 miler 23 times so far, and done the "cannonball-90" (the entire route in a single day) 10 times so far, I'm pretty familiar with the route and cart friendly portages (actually called "carries" when in the Adirondacks) During the height of tourist season, campsite availability and motorboats can definitely be a problem on that route. But that is only a very small portion of the paddleable Adirondacks. Check out the lesser traveled routes as described in the guide books I referenced above for empty campsites, more solitude, and better overall experiences.

 

[yellowcanoe]

Season of visit.
June is very nice. It is often avoided by city folk unused to that harbinger of good clean water the God: Blackfly.
http://www.maineblackfly.com/

The Force can be on your side! Just be ready to Co Exist.