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Risk management is sucking life out of paddling trips

Glenn MacGrady

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Here is a good article about how university outdoor clubs and other youth groups are being deprived of traditional outdoor experiences and skills because of overly risk-averse and litigation-averse desk jockey administrators:

How Risk Management Is Sucking The Life From Kids’ Paddling Trips

Some quotes:

The [98-year-old] Outing Club, as well as Penn State’s caving and diving clubs, were deemed to have “an unacceptable level of risk in their current operation model."
. . . .

It’s absurd for a school board to approve a year-end, capstone paddling trip for students with the caveat there is no swimming allowed, even if everyone wears a PFD.

Other programs mandate youth on trip are not allowed to handle knives—pocket knives and kitchen knives—or stoke the fire. If kids can’t swim, tend to the fire, whittle or help with dinner—what are they left doing? Probably wishing they had Snapchat.


This I absolutely agree with, because I've been saying the same thing for 40 years, and actually used to do it:


If it was safety we were truly concerned about we would wear helmets not just in rapids but in the van ride on the highway to the trailhead.
 
Here the paragraph I liked. Apply the same scrutiny HS and College Football and see how long it lasts. Beside were are we going to find Wide Brim Helmets.

"A 2014 report by the NCAA revealed nearly one in 10 of the United States’ 70,000 college football players reported suffering multiple concussions during their college career, which is linked to long-term brain damage, including higher rates of dementia. Why is an elevated risk of injury—especially traumatic brain injury—acceptable on a sports field? Colleges aren’t keeping stats on concussions in outdoor adventure because they’re so rare."
 
I strongly agree sweeper. As a scout leader we used to take out troop on a 50 mile canoe trip in Algonquin park. We took boys as young as 10 1/2 years old for a 5 day adventure. that would never be allowed today, but some(now men) have told me it was a transformative experience. same with our campouts in pup tents at -20deg. It was called "High adventure".
 
The same article was posted on a thread on facebook, and I wrote a lengthy reply to it, as I have direct experience with the trend. Here's what I said:

Well, I'm not saying this to be inflammatory, but it seems like most of the regs for high school canoe clubs are written because of the mistakes made by groups from Southern Ontario, whether it be high school clubs or Girl Guides. The guidelines for high schools, as prescribed out by OPHEA are very clear, and yet groups from Toronto can't seem to abide by them. Mandatory swim tests are mandatory, if 15 kids don't pass, you don't take them on a trip. That's what happened with the drowning in Algonquin park, and that's why we must have an adult lifeguard on every trip now. The Girl guides a few years ago had a major boondoggle on Georgian Bay, resulting in two kids dying. Major revisions to OPHEA occurred after that too. The regulatory boards are reactive, so people need to follow the existing guidelines, or get out of the game. As for ratios, they are clearly spelled out in OPHEA guidelines too, and if a high school group has 20 kids and two instructors, they are in violation. Risk management is real, and it usually involves real life situations, such as wind, weather and common sense. Unfortunately, risk management is evolving due to the reactionary nature of regulatory bodies to tragedies that never should have happened. The end result is that real risk management gets snowed under by bureaucratic attempts to prevent repeats of these uncommon and isolated occurrences. In my opinion, the answer to most risk management issues is experience, and no-one should be leading kids on a canoe trip who has not served at least five years, and at east 15 trips, under the mentorship of an experienced leader with a proven track record.

Too summarize the discussion, my main point was that the excessive regulations have come about because inexperienced trip leaders, or trip leaders with no actual risk management skills, have screwed up, and someone died as a result. Knee jerk reactions don't look at the actual cause of the death, that being the poor choices of the leader, but at things like having an adult life guard on every trip to prevent drownings. This new reg, brought about because a knucklehead took 30 kids to Algonquinn park, 15 of whom had failed the swim test, and then let them swim unsupervised. One of them who had failed the swim test drowned. The swim test is very easy, if you can't pass it, you should probably stay out of a bath tub. The regs clearly state anyone who does not pass the swim test cannot go on a canoe trip. It was a clear violation of an existing regulation that was fairly sensible. After the inquiry, the amelioration is this cursed new reg requiring an adult lifeguard on every trip.

This will probably kill our program. One of the teachers is trying to get his cert now, but it is not easy in a small town in the middle of nowhere. Our fall trips this year were cancelled because we couldn't get a lifeguard. Ridiculous, when the kids are always wearing lifejackets, we even make them wear them when swimming.

Our winter program, which I was bringing in last year, will now be quashed, because there are no regs for winter camping yet, and the new guy at the board level is a stickler for regs.

I don't hold out much hope for the survival of these programs at a school level. I have had some self righteous pricks tell me that schools shouldn't be doing this stuff anyway when Scouts is available, and that I should put my efforts into Scouts. They are usually populist conservative supporters, who think that no tax dollars should be spent on superfluous programs when the private sector offers "the same thing". I told them to take a good long suck of me arse. Our school program pulls in the majority of kids from disadvantaged backgrounds, who would never enrol in a Scout program, and wouldn't even know what it was. For many of these kids, as they progress through the ranked system over four years, and assume leadership, the program is a game changer. The things they learn out there can never be replicated sitting on their arse in a classroom, and I have watched many kids grow from alienated, uninterested students into engaged and productive young adults.

I tell ya, I'm right some disgusted with humanity right now. There are many people I would like to throat punch, so it's probably a good thing I retired. Now I can make snipes like this from the sidelines and not get fired. I feel bad for the guy I groomed to take over the program, seems like since i left, they just keep piling more and more ridiculous crap on him.

Anyway, that's a view from the "inside".
 
Mem, well put, with the passion of "inside" experience.

To point out the obvious, without those trips, led by knowledgeable paddlers, two things will happen.

Kids won’t paddle and trip and explore. There’s always Fortnight.

Kids who do paddle and trip and explore will be more likely to do so badly without the learning experiences.
 
I'm looking at taking the Outdoor Leadership Program at the local CC. Looks like this subject will be my main line of questioning at their informational night next month.
 
School boards are probably getting nervous about parents and lawsuits... if you google "how to sue a school" there will be websites describing how to get started and what to do. The lawsuits often are reactions to bullying and claims of teachers abusing students. The most expensive one I've heard of is a $240 million lawsuit in Toronto relating to bruising of a special-needs child when restraint was needed.

Not everyone is unhappy over it... lawyers are making piles of money. Maybe the ambulance chasers are starting to hang around schoolyards now.

-------------------------------------

One bright and sunny morning several hardened criminals received the death penalty. Afterwards, they showed up in heaven claiming they had suffered enough from capital punishment.

God however, wasn't convinced and sentenced them to burn in heck forever.

Unfortunately the teletransporter between heaven and heck wasn't working that day.

God phoned Satan. "That dang transporter control is busted again," he said, "and it's your turn to fix it."

"Screw that, my people are way too busy with other stuff to deal with it."

"But we have a signed contract," said God, "and if you don't stick to it, I'll sue you for breach of contract."

Satan grinned. "Yeah, right. And just where do you plan to find a lawyer?"
 
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There are places where this doesn't seem to be happening. I visited Camp Menogyn on the gunflint trail this summer in minnesoata to check out their operation. They seem to be guiding kids on extended trips all over the place from the rocky mountains to northern Ontario rivers with a minimum of camp counselors. We ran in to a couple groups of young ladies in the BWCA this summer on 10 day trips. These were 14 to 16 year old girls and they were portaging fiberglassed wood canvas canoes that must have weighed at least 100 lbs. dry. After that i didnt hear one more complaint about portaging our 38lb kevlar tandem. There was only one camp counselor with the group we talked to and i couldnt tell which one of them it was. Apparently the suing parents and lawyers haven't gotten to them yet.

Mark
 
Private businesses don't have the same problems. Places like Keewaydin charge parents big money and put the kids through real canoe trips in very isolated areas. They do things that high school clubs would never be able to do. Pretty cool stuff. But comes at a pretty high price too, which the vast majority of kids could never afford.
 
Like so many things these days it seems it is easier to make rules than simply address the issues. If a janitor mops the floor and follows the guidelines, puts out signs etc and someone walks and ignores the signage ...slips and falls. You can bet the solution isn't going to be education of the slipping body, it will be additional rules and maybe forgo mopping the floor ....

As previously stated, if the rules ain't broken, don't try and fix them .... fix the people that can't seem to follow them ... don't make everyone pay
 
I’m glad to hear that Dogbrain.i was introduced to wilderness canoeing in ‘69 and ‘70 it was sponsored by the local YMCA. The youth director was a guide/counselor at Menogyn during his college years. It was one of the most pivotal times in my life.
Jim
 
I strongly agree sweeper. As a scout leader we used to take out troop on a 50 mile canoe trip in Algonquin park. We took boys as young as 10 1/2 years old for a 5 day adventure. that would never be allowed today, but some(now men) have told me it was a transformative experience. same with our campouts in pup tents at -20deg. It was called "High adventure".

I disagree with Turtle on this one. In the Adirondacks we still have a BSA high adventure program with five day treks and/or 50 mile canoe trips.They are led by guides trained as "Voyageurs", an 8-day BSA National Camping School classroom and field certification training program that has been continuously active since 1979. Many graduates of the program easily pass the NY State outdoor guide's licensing exam and have their guide license pin. A quirk in the NYS health regulations allows trained trek leaders of youth groups (scouts) to work for hire without being officially licensed guides. Voyageurs are hired by resident scout camps to work as trek leaders for the summer, taking scouts and their adult leaders on 5 day treks, backpacking, canoeing, or a combination of both. Many of the restrictive requirements, and we have seen more over the years, are the result of enhanced youth protection guidelines, or state health department regulations (log every accidental scratch, post in advance planned swimming areas, exact routing and campsites, etc.). But we survive the program nonetheless, where I have been one of the permanent staff instructors since 1990.

Here is a link to one camp's high adventure program: https://247scouting.com/web/BSA397/attachment/document_15276285280_4488.pdf
Another: https://www.ncacbsa.org/adirondack-bsa-high-adventure-programs/
Another: https://www.campsabattis.org/treks
One more: http://www.cnyscouts.org/media/2089/final-trek.pdf

The Adirondack voyageurs web site never seems to be complete, but here it is anyway: http://adkvoyageur.com
 
Our local youth camps are doing fine for wilderness trips as well as some colleges.. I think it is because neither is cheap and money can buy the right insurance. Middlebury has run Arctic canoe trips for a while and my alma mater does wilderness trips worldwide. Summer camps here are not cheap. Neither is college.
In Maine those 18 and over can take kids on wilderness overnight trips but they have to have a permit and take safety and guiding classes before getting said permit. The permit is under the aegis of Inland FIsh and WIldlife and penalties for not having a permit or disregarding the ratio of 1 leader per 6 participants is pretty severe.

Scouting may have to answer to a different administration ( the national BSA) and those in public education are pretty well priced out of these endeavors. Last year a kid drowned at one of our local lakes on a school trip and of course a lawsuit ensued.
 
Our local youth camps are doing fine for wilderness trips as well as some colleges.. I think it is because neither is cheap and money can buy the right insurance.

In the end it may come down to who can afford the insurance costs. I know that insurance for private guide companies (and probably for simple rent-a-boat outfitters) goes up every year, driving some out of financial viability.

The Boy Scouts may have some Nation-wide advantage over smaller programs in that regard. Keewaydin and other “camps” can more easily absorb that already built into their (unaffordable to most) prices.

https://keewaydin.org/songadeewin-overview/songadeewin-camp-information/

The less well funded programs suffer most, even if they are rigorous about swim tests and number of experienced adults per kid and climbing the ladder with proven skills.

I do wonder about how outfitters and guides pre-verify their client’s bona fides before accepting them on a trip, especially those in more challenging/remote areas.

School boards are probably getting nervous about parents and lawsuits... if you google "how to sue a school" there will be websites describing how to get started and what to do.

I had a disheartened chuckle when I read that. My younger son fell off the monkey bars in a pre-K program and broke his arm.

When we stopped by after the hospital visit and the day-care had already toot-sweet arranged for a contractor lay a fresh bed of mulch under the monkey bars. We kinda laughed at their obvious effort, explained that we were not litigious in any way, and understood that boys will be boys. Sometimes with casts on.

If you never broke anything as a kid you weren’t fully living life. Same son broke his collar bone in a middle-school American League football game on a punt reception. Guess we should have Googled “How to sue a school”; we coulda been sitting pretty by now with out-of-court settlements.

I'm right some disgusted with humanity right now.

I have been for 20+ years. Not getting any better.
 
I'm aware of the Voyageurs program, but it is for older boys-not 10 1/2 year old Weblos.
 
I'm aware of the Voyageurs program, but it is for older boys-not 10 1/2 year old Weblos.
BSA high adventure programs and treks are for age and skill/ability appropriate scouts. Generally need to be at the level of 1st class scouts to handle the rigors, physical strength, and maturity required of such a multi-skill activity. As in most scouting activities, it is scout patrol method led, with adult guidance. "Mom" is not there to carry your pack uphill or to paddle your canoe in the wind.
 
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I have been taking my nieces on trips the past couple of years. One of them is now taking her friends out on trips herself. I would love to be able to take more young women out and show them they can do this stuff on their own. What I dont like seeing is the posers who make videos and give a false sense of how anyone can just hop in a boat and go for a paddle.There are so many skills one must develop over time. What is lacking with too many is the critical thinking which helps you adapt to changing situations. Knowing when it is time to get the heck outta Dodge. Programs like the Outers groups are fantastic for teaching this.

Sadly I have now become the liability that no one wants to assume. I however have no plans to stop living the way I want. Soooo I do day trips or easy overnights with those who are willing to accept my limitations. We discuss action plans beforehand. What I need is another old lady, retired medic, who loves to paddle.

On a related note...we have come across those youth groups that are led by senior students. We watched one group paddle in cirlces as they didnt know how to trim a canoe properly. We found one of their canoes bashed to bits along a river...a royalex Bell Alaskan of all things, tough boat. These groups are from bible colleges in Minnesota mostly, that we see anyways. The one group of young men we encountered were headed into the boreal without a saw. We donated one to them. I consider this to be needlessly reckless. God forbid they decide to take a chainsaw though.
 
Things have changed for sure since I was a teen. I was canoeing with a couple of teachers from Middle School back in the 70's and all my parents did was say go ahead, one trip was 650 miles down the Albany River to the James Bay and bit of that to Moosenee.There was also rock climbing, bike trips which ended in backpacking trips. Hikes to the top of Mt Marcy in the Adirondacks in the middle of winter. I thought is was normal at the time! I guess it was a good time to grow up in!

dougd
 
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