• Happy Weed Appreciation Day! 🌱🌿🌻

West systems 207 and Ephines Varnish combination

Joined
Oct 20, 2019
Messages
130
Reaction score
48
Location
Mendota Heights, MN
Made a canoe thwart, bow, and stern handles from Ash. Going to put 3 coats of Epoxy, and 3 coats of Ephines on.I already put two coats of West Systems 105 and 207 on last week. Before I put the last coat on should I sand with 120 grit for proper adhesion? Can't find and info on how long to let the epoxy dry before initial coat of Ephines? I know dry times vary with temp and humidity. Is it a situation where you feel for it to be dry to the touch, but still tacky? Not much specific info out there that I could find.
 
Yes sand it. If you don’t get a nice powder from sanding it is still too green. Wait another couple of days and try again. You could spot heat them with clip on lights to help them cure faster. I do that all the time. I also use a programmable timer to turn the light out so it isn’t on all night.
Jim
 
I wouldn’t put on any more epoxy. varnish alone does the job. The epoxy does seal the wood, so it will be easier to get a good finish with the varnish. The epoxy should cure at least a week. Listen to Jim’s advise on that.

Mark
 
If your epoxy isn't totally cured, the varnish will not cure either. Thing is, epoxy can look and feel cured, but still be kinda green. The previous advice about letting it cure for a week is good. I had one paddle where I let the coat of epoxy cure for two or three days, seemed pretty solid, but once the varnish was applied, no joy in Mudville. After a week, it was still tacky, so it was back to the sander to start over.
 
If your epoxy isn't totally cured, the varnish will not cure either. Thing is, epoxy can look and feel cured, but still be kinda green. The previous advice about letting it cure for a week is good. I had one paddle where I let the coat of epoxy cure for two or three days, seemed pretty solid, but once the varnish was applied, no joy in Mudville. After a week, it was still tacky, so it was back to the sander to start over.

Thank you for your reply. I am glad I asked because I was under the impression I had to put the varnish on before the epoxy had totally hardened in order for it to have good adhesion. Again, thank you to everyone for your help.
 
If your epoxy isn't totally cured, the varnish will not cure either. Thing is, epoxy can look and feel cured, but still be kinda green. The previous advice about letting it cure for a week is good. I had one paddle where I let the coat of epoxy cure for two or three days, seemed pretty solid, but once the varnish was applied, no joy in Mudville. After a week, it was still tacky, so it was back to the sander to start over.

As per the above consensus I wait (at least) a week after a final epoxy coat and then test sand (dry sand) a small area to make sure I’m getting dust and not rubbery goo. I’ve rushed that, more than once, and having to remove the goo and start over takes longer than having waited a couple of extra days

Shop temperature and humidity matter, and having a concrete slab floor doesn’t help. The cold sink makes it harder to heat in the winter and raises the humidity level in the summer. In sweaty summer weather I need to run a window AC unit to drop the humidity level.

The winter solution that works best for me is running an electric radiant oil heater. Set on low 600W under a gunwales down canoe the hull captures enough heat that the shop may be cool but the entire boat stays warm. I use that same radiant oil heater to help dry/cure epoxy, hanging parts and pieces over it.

P3020013 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

About thwarts, yokes, carry handles and such, I finish them before I finish them, meaning that I dry-test fit them in the canoe before any epoxy or varnish coats go on. In part so that I can pipe cleaner some epoxy or varnish inside the machine screw holes (drilled 1/32 larger than the hardware), but also so that I am assured everything fits perfectly. Plus that provides a machine screw hole to hang off a finishing nail.

It sucks to get epoxy or varnish on and then discover that, oh crap, I need to sand this end down just a wee bit more, removing those finish coats and needing to re-apply them.

About sanding epoxy coats, I dry sand test a small obscure area, but tend to wet sand (220 usually) almost everything, including brightwork. In part to help remove any possible amine blush or contaminates but mostly because I have too often/too easily cut all the way through my finish coats when dry sanding, especially with too much vigor when using an RO. I’ve cut through even hand sanding with 120

Provided my epoxy coat(s) are smooth and free of drips and sags I’m just looking to take the gloss off the epoxy before a varnish or paint coat.
 
About sanding epoxy coats, I dry sand test a small obscure area, but tend to wet sand (220 usually) almost everything, including brightwork. In part to help remove any possible amine blush or contaminates but mostly because I have too often/too easily cut all the way through my finish coats when dry sanding, especially with too much vigor when using an RO. I’ve cut through even hand sanding with 120

Provided my epoxy coat(s) are smooth and free of drips and sags I’m just looking to take the gloss off the epoxy before a varnish or paint coat.

Thank you Mike, very helpful. I have 120 and 220 for my RO sander. I will use 220 to take the sheen off. While I'm on the subject, what is the best application tool for varnish on wood. I have found the cheap disposable brushes to be the best, but would like to know your method.

And thank you for the advise on test fitting. I purposely cut them a 1/4 inch short to allow for epoxy, but still will dry fit.
 
I leave the epoxy about 10 days at room temp, longer if it's chilly. I like to use a coat of epoxy to help seal the wood, but I just use a single layer, leave it cure and sand with 220 grit .... at that point it is ready for varnish.

I think more epoxy doesn't serve any purpose, the first coat hardens and seals the surface. When you sand a hardened surface it get smoother (than un-epoxy-sealed) because all the wood fibers are contained in the epoxy matrix ... the varnish goes on smoother and stays that way, producing a glossier surface.


Brian
 
I think more epoxy doesn't serve any purpose, the first coat hardens and seals the surface. When you sand a hardened surface it get smoother (than un-epoxy-sealed) because all the wood fibers are contained in the epoxy matrix ... the varnish goes on smoother and stays that way, producing a glossier surface.


Brian

Brian,
My reasoning for 3 coats was solely based on online research. Even two coats seems pretty thick. Thank you for the advise.
https://www.epoxyworks.com/index.php/varnish-over-epoxy/
 
While I'm on the subject, what is the best application tool for varnish on wood. I have found the cheap disposable brushes to be the best, but would like to know your method.

When varnishing a large surface I use a short foam roller and then tip out with a foam brush.

For smaller stuff like thwarts, yokes and carry handles a roller is overkill, and is harder for me to control the amount of varnish applied on the rounded edges, so I use a brush.

My brush work is not the best, and using a high quality brush helps. That said I often use cheap disposable brushes and live with removing the occasional stray bristle left behind, mostly because I only have one really good brush and don’t want to have to clean it after every varnish coat.
 
Apply the next coat of epoxy when it is still tacky from the last one, otherwise you have the potential for amine blush. It can be removed with water and a scrubber.
One coat of epoxy is usually enough to seal the wood and make it waterproof. Light sanding before varnish, and light sanding between varnish coats.
 
Back
Top