AK Destinations: Tangle Lakes, Delta, Gulkana

[NomadAK]

I'm looking at a few shorter length trips towards the end of this summer and into fall, and I'm looking at these areas as options. Does anyone have any experience with them? I'm looking for some 2-3 day trips, one would be with my father, 60, who is in good shape but I'd like to avoid any death march portages or heavy rapids with. The other would be with friends in very good shape, but not necessarily skilled paddlers in canoes. If I hit the rivers, we might add some pack rafts to the trip and use my tripper as a sort of "Mothership" for gear.

I missed a group paddle on the Tangle lakes a week ago, but have seen that there is great paddling there. Does anyone have experience with what it would be like for tripping?

On the Gulkana, my thoughts focus on the middle stretch from Sourdough to the highway. Delta River would be from Tangle lakes to the highway.

Any input from someone with experience in these areas (or other suggestions in southcentral, minus Nancy Lakes and Swan/Swanson systems) would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Mason]

I've paddled all of them--Tangle Lakes, Delta River from Tangle to the Rich before Black Rapids, and the Gulkana from Paxson Lake to Sailors Pit. Tangle Lakes is all lakes (duh), but it is a great place--with one short and one longer portage, you can get into some neat country, and you can paddle all the way back to the landing on an obscure stream. Delta River and the Gulkana have C11 whitewater and reasonable (1 each) portage. For the Delta, you have a little rock dodging before the mandatory portage over the falls (trail on right), and the Gulkana has some chop and waves after the one portage below the lake (trail on left). They're all good trips--I'd recommend the Delta and the Gulkana below the lake for decent whitewater paddlers. I think the Gulkana from Sourdough to the takeout doesn't have any ww. The BLM has good information on the Gulkana and the Delta.

 

[Mason]

[No message]

 

[lowangle al]

Hi Nomad, the Tangle lakes are a great and easy trip. It's scenic mostly open tundra, great for wildlife viewing and there should be a lot of blueberries at that time.

The easier of the two rivers to paddle is the Delta. It has a pretty unique portage around some falls. Halfway across you come to a pond that you have to paddle across, it was relatively long and steep.

The lower part of the Gulkana from Sourdough to sailors pit is easier than the more popular upper section which is the one commonly floated. The lower section must not be too long of a trip, as I did it as a daytrip. It may also be Native land where camping is prohibited so check it out. The upper stretch from Paxon Lake to Sourdough is the one commonly floated and powerboats aren't allowed. It's the one you want to do. I wouldn't recommend inexperienced paddlers tackle it in packrafts(but I may be wrong.) I think they would be better off in a large raft. Even your Dad would be OK in a large raft. The portage is an easy quarter mile that I always portaged. People do float it in canoes, but empty. Most lighten their rafts too and carry most of there stuff.

It's a great float that begins with a five mile lake crossing that can be tough in a raft. There will be so many sockeyes where the river leaves the lake that they will be banging off the bottom of your boat. It has great greyling fishing and the Rainbow trout fishing is amazing if you make some time for it.

I'd be happy answer any question if I can.

 

[NomadAK]

Thanks for the responses. Should have clarified the packrafters are experienced in their rafts, but less so in canoes.

Leaning towards Tangle Lakes for August at the moment-- I think eliminating the need for a shuttle will simplify things with just the two of us, and being on lakes gives some additional flexibility in length of trip so we can react to weather, etc.

The Upper Gulkana is a must on my list at this point-- looking at the USGS data for historical water levels, it looks like there's been good flow at the end of September in the past, so I'll continue to look into that one. Maybe worth waiting a season to take advantage of better fishing opportunities, though.

 

[VernAK]

The Upper Tangles [way back] offers some nice grayling also.

 

[Mason]

The Upper Gulkana is a must on my list at this point-- looking at the USGS data for historical water levels, it looks like there's been good flow at the end of September in the past, so I'll continue to look into that one. Maybe worth waiting a season to take advantage of better fishing opportunities, though.

I was hoping to do the entire Gulkana at some point. Some friends and I paddled Lake Louise to Tyone Lake down the Tyone River a bit to where you could (theoretically) get to the head of the Gulkana. I read somewhere it was supposed to be a 21 day trip--dunno. But I bet you'd have it all to yourself for much of it.

 

[VernAK]

I was hoping to do the entire Gulkana at some point. Some friends and I paddled Lake Louise to Tyone Lake down the Tyone River a bit to where you could (theoretically) get to the head of the Gulkana. I read somewhere it was supposed to be a 21 day trip--dunno. But I bet you'd have it all to yourself for much of it.

That's two different watersheds IIRC and a bugger to portage.
Tyone is in the McLaren/Sustitna drainage and Gulkana is in the Copper River Drainage if not mistaken.

 

[Mason]

That's two different watersheds IIRC and a bugger to portage.
Tyone is in the McLaren/Sustitna drainage and Gulkana is in the Copper River Drainage if not mistaken.

Yep--there's a series of lakes between the Tyone and the Gulkana. And yes, there would be portages (and bugs). You'd definitely not want to miss the turn off and head down to the Susitna with Devil's Canyon (VI) between you and civilization. When I was back there (15 years ago), the upper Gulkana was a route. Dunno who did it though!

Lots of fun stuff to do in the Copper River Basin (e.g. Copper from headwaters around Copper Lake, Copper/Chitina/McCarthy to Cordova, Nizina Glacier to Chitina, etc.). My canoeing partners left me high and dry, so I didn't get to do much. And then I worked too danged much!

 

[NomadAK]

The Tangle Lakes to Middle Fork Gulkana also has me intrigued-- though I'm a bit apprehensive as to the state of the portage from Tangle and the first few miles of the Upper Gulkana...I've heard both are brushy and very buggy (more so than the rest of the area). I'm thinking I'll check it out during this August trip, hiking the portage without committing to carrying everything over.

 

[VernAK]

I've never looked for a portage trail from Upper Tangle to Dickey Lake and down the Middle Fork but it may be easier to go down Swede Creek from Swede Lake to Middle Fork.
Again, I've not checked out the size of the creek but salmon do migrate up to Swede Lake.

 

[lowangle al]

I was hoping to do the entire Gulkana at some point. Some friends and I paddled Lake Louise to Tyone Lake down the Tyone River a bit to where you could (theoretically) get to the head of the Gulkana. I read somewhere it was supposed to be a 21 day trip--dunno. But I bet you'd have it all to yourself for much of it.

I had been down the Tyone River checking it out too. I don't think I made it as far as that portage. I remember turning back because there was no where to set up my tent. I ended up going back to Susitna lake to find a spot just big enough for the tent. I was also skeptical about that being a 21 day trip. I figure you'd be at the start of the portage in two days and the lower navigable stretch couldn't be more that three or four days(60miles?) so that's a week at the most. To me that sounds like two more weeks of heck. But I bet that you would have it to yourself. It would be cool though to pole and paddle up the West fork, being closed to motors I doubt it gets much traffic at all.


Nomad, another good option up that way would be to float down to Tazlina Lake from Mendeltna creek on the Glenn Highway and go down the Tazlina River to the Richardson Hwy. I've been down to Tazlina lake on a four wheeler and always wanted to go back with a boat. A friend of mine used to fly in there to camp and fish for silvers by a creek.

 

[Mason]

Nomad, another good option up that way would be to float down to Tazlina Lake from Mendeltna creek on the Glenn Highway and go down the Tazlina River to the Richardson Hwy. I've been down to Tazlina lake on a four wheeler and always wanted to go back with a boat. A friend of mine used to fly in there to camp and fish for silvers by a creek.

Some friends paddled the Little Nelchina to Tazlina via Tazlina Lake. If I remember, the water levels are key on the Little Nelchina, and there's some big water below the lake on the Tazlina. Just found a description:

 

[NomadAK]

The Tazlina route looks like a great one to run, but I'm not quite ready to take sustained class III rapids. Especially on these trips with less experienced paddlers.

Looking at the Tyone river on the map, seems like a float from Lake Louise to Talkeetna would be a great long distance trip.

 

[Mason]

Looking at the Tyone river on the map, seems like a float from Lake Louise to Talkeetna would be a great long distance trip.

The Tyone flows into the Susitna, and you'd have to paddle Devil's Canyon (Class V+-VI). That could be challenging in an open boat! Check out the vid!

 

[NomadAK]

Ahh, did not realize that was in there! I'm guessing there are no good portage routes?

 

[Mason]

I think the only people that go there (hair boaters, as we used to call them) go for the canyon. Here's a description https://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/River/detail/id/46/

 

[NomadAK]

Wanted to follow up-- ended up heading on a large circle tour along the Glenn, Richardson, Denali, and lastly Parks highways. Paddled Tangle Lakes and was able to see a great variety of wildlife on the water in just our first evening-- otters, beaver, eagles, waterfowl. My father was especially excited seeing grizzly tracks in the mud. Had my first introduction to fly fishing and caught my first grayling!

Also used the canoe to paddle in to a public use cabin on Beyer's lake in Denali SP. While the cabin is easily accessible by a walk in trail, the Tripper made hauling gear a much more pleasant experience!

Currently planning the late September trip, but the amount of fires going on are limiting options. Thanks to all for the recommendations!

 

[lowangle al]

It sounds like you had a good time. I planned to make it to Tangle Lakes this weekend but working until 8PM on Friday killed it for me.

As far as the end of September, If you plan on going north again, it may be winter up there. Back in the early 90's on Tangle Lake the week after Labor Day I woke up to snow. It was a big storm that closed the Denali Hwy for the season. A family of four got stranded and died that weekend.

 

[Mason]

September could be exciting there. I went once, planning for several days. At the first portage, we had to paddle through several hundred yards of ice. I wasn't willing to have the whole place frozen at the end of the trip, so made it a day trip. I do love September in Alaska though!